Just Got Dropped From Daniel Madisons Malliance!

[james001a]

So after supporting everything DM has done, joining the Malliance through Patreon and ordering and pre ordering decks through them,I just got informed by Patreon and DM I am no longer a member and cannot rejoin. My issue has always been that I never had access to any account info so I could keep track of my pending orders. So after 3 polite posts, and a polite email to his member exclusive direct email, here is what I just got from the message I sent on his Patreon page:

My post: Well, I joined the Malliance in order to have more access to DM and his projects, but after 2 attempts to get his attention on here, and sending him email directly using his member exclusive email I have yet to hear from him. Kinda what it was like dealing with Ellusionist. I will give this patreon another month and see if things change.

55min (Later)
DANIEL MADISON
Goodbye James x

I finally got my first response! Mind you, I know I have about $450 in decks I ordered and am waiting for, so now we we see if I get them or if I get my money back.

On a side note, I will be selling off every DM deck I own now.

[Decknowledgy]

What an asshat.

[Bradius]

Someone (not you) must not have been having a good day. Still, that response might feel good to him at the time, but really bad business practice and just rude in the extreme. I agree with your decision. Time to move on.

[theCapraAegagrus]

100% douche.

You'll feel some 'good riddance' once those DM decks leave your life.

[james001a]

Thanks for your support TwoPiece and Bradius. I don't see how what I said could be grounds for just dropping me.
I had used up all of my means of being able to contact him so this was my only way. The fact that this was the first response I ever got really pisses me off. Yes I will feel vindicated when I dump his decks. They dont deserve a place in my collection. So now he joins with Natalia Silva and SVI as companies of which I will never do business with. Tell you one thing, Jackson Robinson would never have treated a supporter like that. So what I would have spent with DM goes to JR now.

[codybear]

James, If I were you I wouldn't be waiting to see if you're going to receive anything from him that's outstanding after that message. It's obvious DM is an assho!e and always has been.

I'd start filing your PayPal disputes now and/or seek reimbursement from your credit card. It's easier to deal with a third party company then trying to deal with the creator themselves because after you get your $200 back, they'll go directly after him and he'll have no choice but to pay it back or let his PayPal account go into bad standings.

[theCapraAegagrus]

James, If I were you I wouldn't be waiting to see if you're going to receive anything from him that's outstanding after that message. It's obvious DM is an assho!e and always has been.

I'd start filing your PayPal disputes now and/or seek reimbursement from your credit card. It's easier to deal with a third party company then trying to deal with the creator themselves because after you get your $200 back, they'll go directly after him and he'll have no choice but to pay it back or let his PayPal account go into bad standings.

Good suggestion.

I would request a refund (with whoever processed payment) regardless of DM's intentions on delivering orders or not.

[ICantShuffle]

James, good on you and stick to your guns.

I have like one or two Daniel Madison decks, and they're both the one he did with Chris Ramsay.

JR's decks are always worth what you pay and he delivers, always. Lotrek and Lorenzo also. It's funny how the actual artists who have talent, bend over backwards and break a sweat to bring their products to market, but guys who probably couldn't be further removed from the development of their own monikered decks feel like they can get away with treating people like garbage? Nah, not any more.

[Decknowledgy]

This makes me want to cancel my preorder for the "Magic Is Dead" book that talks about that particular magic circle.

[james001a]

James, If I were you I wouldn't be waiting to see if you're going to receive anything from him that's outstanding after that message. It's obvious DM is an assho!e and always has been.

I'd start filing your PayPal disputes now and/or seek reimbursement from your credit card. It's easier to deal with a third party company then trying to deal with the creator themselves because after you get your $200 back, they'll go directly after him and he'll have no choice but to pay it back or let his PayPal account go into bad standings.

Good suggestion.

I would request a refund (with whoever processed payment) regardless of DM's intentions on delivering orders or not.

Working on it as we speak...thanks for the suggestions and support. I really do love being in this group!

[james001a]

James, good on you and stick to your guns.

I have like one or two Daniel Madison decks, and they're both the one he did with Chris Ramsay.

JR's decks are always worth what you pay and he delivers, always. Lotrek and Lorenzo also. It's funny how the actual artists who have talent, bend over backwards and break a sweat to bring their products to market, but guys who probably couldn't be further removed from the development of their own monikered decks feel like they can get away with treating people like garbage? Nah, not any more.

I agree wholeheartedly with you about JR, Lotrek and Lorenzo. All of those guys are fantastic with their customer/backer service. they do it right. I was a business owner, and now that I have moved on from that I just cannot see why any business would treat a customer like that. In the end, they need our money and support more than we need their decks ( I know, I know...), of which there is so much out there to choose from.

[james001a]

James, If I were you I wouldn't be waiting to see if you're going to receive anything from him that's outstanding after that message. It's obvious DM is an assho!e and always has been.

I'd start filing your PayPal disputes now and/or seek reimbursement from your credit card. It's easier to deal with a third party company then trying to deal with the creator themselves because after you get your $200 back, they'll go directly after him and he'll have no choice but to pay it back or let his PayPal account go into bad standings.

Good suggestion.

I would request a refund (with whoever processed payment) regardless of DM's intentions on delivering orders or not.

Well now he is going to have a lot of questions from paypal and visa, as I filed claims for all of them. And I added them up and it totals about $450 not the $200 I thought it would be.

[theCapraAegagrus]

James, good on you and stick to your guns.

I have like one or two Daniel Madison decks, and they're both the one he did with Chris Ramsay.

JR's decks are always worth what you pay and he delivers, always. Lotrek and Lorenzo also. It's funny how the actual artists who have talent, bend over backwards and break a sweat to bring their products to market, but guys who probably couldn't be further removed from the development of their own monikered decks feel like they can get away with treating people like garbage? Nah, not any more.

I agree wholeheartedly with you about JR, Lotrek and Lorenzo. All of those guys are fantastic with their customer/backer service. they do it right. I was a business owner, and now that I have moved on from that I just cannot see why any business would treat a customer like that. In the end, they need our money and support more than we need their decks ( I know, I know...), of which there is so much out there to choose from.

Sadly, the hype he throws at his fanboys may keep his business propped up. It's a small problem among the collecting society.

His decks aren't the type to be appreciated in any history of the business, though. Word of mouth will trickle down throughout generations that JR, Lotrek, and Lorenzo not only provided tremendous works of art to the world - but also high-esteemed customer service and impacted communities in a mostly-favorable fashion. Nobody is perfect, but you can tell that all of them (and not just them, but they are a few names in the highest stratosphere) have great character. That stuff will be remembered.

Daniel Madison's name, and subsequently his legacy, will burn in the ashes of forgotten history at some point. And he certainly earned it.

[james001a]

Much thanks to EVERYONE on here that has voiced support for me. Here is an snippet of what I was sent by Patreon:

Hi James,
We're writing to let you know that your pledge to DANIEL MADISON has been removed.
You won't be charged for any new content that DANIEL MADISON posts after this point. If you want to learn more about what you can expect to pay for your support this month, you can find more info here.
Your pledge has been removed because DANIEL MADISON has blocked you from their account. This means you won't be able to contact them or become their patron again.
Here are the most common reasons that creators block users on Patreon:
taking content without paying for it
bullying someone or just making them uncomfortable
posting spam or engaging in aggressive promotion
Some of these behaviors are against our Community Guidelines, but keep in mind that a creator on Patreon can block someone for any reason, even if that person hasn't broken the Community Guidelines.
Even though you've been blocked by DANIEL MADISON, you can still continue to use the rest of Patreon to discover other awesome creators, and we hope that you do. Thanks again for all your continued support for creators.
Best,
Patreon Support

[james001a]

James, good on you and stick to your guns.

I have like one or two Daniel Madison decks, and they're both the one he did with Chris Ramsay.

JR's decks are always worth what you pay and he delivers, always. Lotrek and Lorenzo also. It's funny how the actual artists who have talent, bend over backwards and break a sweat to bring their products to market, but guys who probably couldn't be further removed from the development of their own monikered decks feel like they can get away with treating people like garbage? Nah, not any more.

I agree wholeheartedly with you about JR, Lotrek and Lorenzo. All of those guys are fantastic with their customer/backer service. they do it right. I was a business owner, and now that I have moved on from that I just cannot see why any business would treat a customer like that. In the end, they need our money and support more than we need their decks ( I know, I know...), of which there is so much out there to choose from.

Sadly, the hype he throws at his fanboys may keep his business propped up. It's a small problem among the collecting society.

His decks aren't the type to be appreciated in any history of the business, though. Word of mouth will trickle down throughout generations that JR, Lotrek, and Lorenzo not only provided tremendous works of art to the world - but also high-esteemed customer service and impacted communities in a mostly-favorable fashion. Nobody is perfect, but you can tell that all of them (and not just them, but they are a few names in the highest stratosphere) have great character. That stuff will be remembered.

Daniel Madison's name, and subsequently his legacy, will burn in the ashes of forgotten history at some point. And he certainly earned it.

Thanks for backing me on this...I would add T11's service to the "nice" list as well. Always got excellent support from them. I would add Elephant to the "naughty" list, as they had poor customer service.

[ICantShuffle]

Art of Play also has excellent customer service. Which is why I don't mind picking up decks from them at the occasional premium.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Thanks for backing me on this...I would add T11's service to the "nice" list as well. Always got excellent support from them. I would add Elephant to the "naughty" list, as they had poor customer service.

I don't think you'll find a single person here that won't back you on this. We all strive to receive great customer service at every turn. DM has a poor reputation through a lot of perspectives, as well.

I agree. Theory11 has had excellent service among the very few times I interacted with them.

Believe it or not, back in the day, Ellusionist also had excellent customer service. I haven't contacted them in probably 3+ years, though. Things may have changed. I order their products mostly through 3rd-party re-sellers.

[runit]

So after supporting everything DM has done, joining the Malliance through Patreon and ordering and pre ordering decks through them,I just got informed by Patreon and DM I am no longer a member and cannot rejoin. My issue has always been that I never had access to any account info so I could keep track of my pending orders. So after 3 polite posts, and a polite email to his member exclusive direct email, here is what I just got from the message I sent on his Patreon page:

My post: Well, I joined the Malliance in order to have more access to DM and his projects, but after 2 attempts to get his attention on here, and sending him email directly using his member exclusive email I have yet to hear from him. Kinda what it was like dealing with Ellusionist. I will give this patreon another month and see if things change.

55min (Later)
DANIEL MADISON
Goodbye James x

I finally got my first response! Mind you, I know I have about $450 in decks I ordered and am waiting for, so now we we see if I get them or if I get my money back.

On a side note, I will be selling off every DM deck I own now.

I know what you feel. I'm not exactly with the same situation, but I have been blocked in Instagram for suggesting that he improve his logistics as it has been more than a year and my purchases were still havent delivered. I had spent over 500USD for two orders and none of them came.

Also noticed that it's either he blocks and deletes comments right away, disable comments, or make a repost just to get rid of people who have concerns with their order.

He even did a post saying that his Instagram comments section is not the avenue to reach out to him for order concern, but Im sure most of the people who commented have exhausted all means but did not get an answer.

Anyone who has an idea on where to file a complaint?

[theCapraAegagrus]

So after supporting everything DM has done, joining the Malliance through Patreon and ordering and pre ordering decks through them,I just got informed by Patreon and DM I am no longer a member and cannot rejoin. My issue has always been that I never had access to any account info so I could keep track of my pending orders. So after 3 polite posts, and a polite email to his member exclusive direct email, here is what I just got from the message I sent on his Patreon page:

My post: Well, I joined the Malliance in order to have more access to DM and his projects, but after 2 attempts to get his attention on here, and sending him email directly using his member exclusive email I have yet to hear from him. Kinda what it was like dealing with Ellusionist. I will give this patreon another month and see if things change.

55min (Later)
DANIEL MADISON
Goodbye James x

I finally got my first response! Mind you, I know I have about $450 in decks I ordered and am waiting for, so now we we see if I get them or if I get my money back.

On a side note, I will be selling off every DM deck I own now.

I know what you feel. I'm not exactly with the same situation, but I have been blocked in Instagram for suggesting that he improve his logistics as it has been more than a year and my purchases were still havent delivered. I had spent over 500USD for two orders and none of them came.

Also noticed that it's either he blocks and deletes comments right away, disable comments, or make a repost just to get rid of people who have concerns with their order.

He even did a post saying that his Instagram comments section is not the avenue to reach out to him for order concern, but Im sure most of the people who commented have exhausted all means but did not get an answer.

Anyone who has an idea on where to file a complaint?

This is unfortunate.

File a complaint with your financial institution for your money back.

Trends that I've noticed:

Companies/people that strive for excellence will accept legitimate criticism or reaching out over social media, and respond publicly themselves, trying to publicly resolve any potential problems. They do this because they know that potential customers will see their transparency resolving customer service.

People/brands of the opposite nature will do exactly as DM does. Delete anything potentially "negative" (however legitimate doesn't matter) to make it appear like they don't suffer from platform problems. The problem is that their customer service is far from transparent. Then you look for word-of-mouth online and find topics like these that will expose their vile and troublesome nature.

I don't think a single reputable company or brand has EVER tried to silence me on social media. I can't recall a single one ever doing this on Facebook, Twitter, IG, etc. It would raise a red flag in my mind for any brand that does not have conflict resolution publicly available somewhere in this Age of Internet.

[james001a]

Art of Play also has excellent customer service. Which is why I don't mind picking up decks from them at the occasional premium.

Agreed. I have had excellent experiences with AOP too. Perhaps we should have a section of UC where we keep a customer service "report card" on playing card creators. Unless we already have one...do we?

[Jocu]

Removed

[robcan0630]

Still being relatively new to this hobby, is this the same Daniel Madison of the Ellusionist Madison Dealers and Rounders decks? I'm still trying to get some of the names I've seen / read linked up with their work.

[hsbc]

Yeah, same Madison

[aardvarkgod]

Agreed. I have had excellent experiences with AOP too. Perhaps we should have a section of UC where we keep a customer service "report card" on playing card creators. Unless we already have one...do we?

There's a "black list" on the site, but it hasn't really been updated but a few times...

[hsbc]

In a perfect world creator rankings would be one of many new additions to Portfolio52....

[james001a]

That would be very beneficial to the community, both new and veterans alike!

[Jocu]

Removed

[Decknowledgy]

The thing I don't understand is why is there still a bunch of magicians who hold him as a holy grail to the community, especially the well-known YouTuber magicians and deck/magic reviewers? Is it because of the charm of The 52 secret society?

[james001a]

Daniel Madison over the past few months seems to have exposed his brand as a pyramid scheme which has collapsed. Ie, he’s taken money off hundreds of people, but has now spent too much of it and now can not afford to produce all the goods that people were supposedly buying.

I’m surprised people haven’t pulled out sooner - this has been we’ll know for at least six months now and after his very public meltdown I’m surprised people didn’t see this coming.

Still, it’s not the customers fault and the more noise we make about this the fewer people will be ripped off by him.

Yes, it certainly looks like a pyramid.

[Bradius]

What public meltdown? Link? Popcorn?