Trzes' Mamluk Deck on Kickstarter

[Jock1971]

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[Magic Tapp]

I think that this is another example of a campaign where the creator does not bother to come up with a proper description of the deck in the hope that an oriental theme would be enough to achieve funding.

[Merlebird]

I think that this is another example of a campaign where the creator does not bother to come up with a proper description of the deck in the hope that an oriental theme would be enough to achieve funding.

What constitutes a "proper description" in your mind? The project description outright shows every card. The only thing I don't see is mention of printer (probably not a big-name playing card printer since the cards are a non-standard size) or back design (which most decks of that era didn't have anyhow).

[Bradius]

I really like the concept and I am on the fence on this one. However, the price is fairly steep and the renders just don't get me excited about the likely quality, nor the low goal amount. If he would put together something like the quality I am expecting for the Visconti Modrone Tarot, I would be all over this in a second.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lo ... rone-tarot

[JuFiN]

I agree this reminds me a lot of the Visconti campaign. I wish I could be confident in the quality of the cards from this campaign because I do love restoration decks and the choice of deck seems good.

Here is WOPC's page on the deck for people who desire more information on the deck:
http://www.wopc.co.uk/egypt/mamluk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For now im on the fence, the cost per deck is pretty high for unknown printer / quality. If he named the printer or gave some other evidence to assure quality I would probably back. EPCC for example I know prints tarot decks which are also not standard poker size.

[JuFiN]

I do also have concern about how closely he has tried to recreate some of the details, for example in the first image showing the recreation process, the second card (some court card of coins) has arabic inscriptions on a blue background on both the top and the bottom, but the reconstruction only has one box at the top with just the arabic card rank (I suspect) and none of the "flavor text" the original cards had. He also mentions he will be printing them in a size smaller than the originals. I back restoration decks in order to receive a little piece of history that accurately recreates something of historic significance. These two details trouble me in regard to the accuracy of this restoration.

[Magic Tapp]

I think that this is another example of a campaign where the creator does not bother to come up with a proper description of the deck in the hope that an oriental theme would be enough to achieve funding.

What constitutes a "proper description" in your mind? The project description outright shows every card. The only thing I don't see is mention of printer (probably not a big-name playing card printer since the cards are a non-standard size) or back design (which most decks of that era didn't have anyhow).

Well, a proper description will cover the tuck, front and back and the printer and this one lacks three out of four.

[Bradius]

More information is on his website http://mamluk.spiorad.net/index.htm

He is also planning to do a very limited antique version, which you can find on his shop section for $265 Euros or $295 in a nice box. Here are the details of that version, which I think you need to arrange directly with the creator.

The Antique Style Edition
Decks from the antique style edition will be printed on demand at kartograme.com on three-layered parly hand made art paper with a structured surface. The card format will be 92 x 250 mm, which is roughly the size of the original Topkapi cards. The deck will be mostly hand-made, with a traditional surface treatment using soap and bees wax. It nicely resembles the look and feel of antique cards. The colors will be a bit muted compared to the standard edition and the colored areas will not remain entirely uniformly colored due to the surface treatment. The cards are thick and soft and have a very special feel. The actual printing is done with a professional ink-jet printer using special ink, that is particularly light resistant.

The antique style edition is not on Kickstarter, but instead is being sold via Agnes Kapplers Kartograme webshop. Preorders can now be placed. The edition is limited to 20 copies.

Making a deck like that involves a lot of manual work, therefore a copy will be very expensive. The price for one copy in a plain hardcover box will be 265 Euros plus shipping. Coming in an adequately posh deluxe box the price will be 295 Euros plus shipping.

If any of you have lots of spare money. Here is the link to the antique version if you are interested in it:

https://kartograme.shop/collections/les ... ue-edition

It looks like he has spent some time working on this deck. Again, there are things I really like, but I am just not sure he can pull this off. Still on the fence.

[hsbc]

Wow, that sounds quite nice, but to me is more "art" than "playing cards"

[shimmering]

On the question about the blue calligraphy boxes: I think he is trying to mimic the appearance of the Mamluk cards as they were originally designed rather than as they appear now. The accepted opinion is that these cards were modified ... perhaps some of the original cards were lost, some of the original non-court cards were promoted to be court-cards, some cards with a somewhat different appearance (maybe from different decks) were added. The blue calligraphy boxes are definitely stuck on top of some part of the artwork, and perhaps they were added at this time. The idea is that some of the cards originally had calligraphy boxes at the top, none of them originally had calligraphy boxes at the bottom. (I think I remember right, though, that the arabic texts he has used in the top calligraphy boxes correspond to the names of the cards, which are actually found in the bottom calligraphy boxes on the cards as they appear now.)

So as well as reproducing the artwork, anyone tackling this deck must decide how they deal with the fact that not all the cards are there (and that some have apparently changed in value). I know he has spent quite some time trying to decode the structure of the deck based on what can be determined about the original appearance of the surviving cards, and he has written quite a lot about it on his site (linked from the KS page). One notable and I think not uncontroversial aspect of his analysis is the conclusion for four court cards.

(The 1970s reproduction also had a suit structure with four court cards, but this was because it apparently partially followed Mayer's original misassignment of some of the cards, with some of the kings as "helpers".)

Anyway, I know he has been working on this project for several years. For the past couple of months he has also been posting on a Facebook page, and there there is a little more info there about the printer ... he is sharing pics of test prints of the cards he has had done to check the quality ..... You can search for "trzes art" on facebook if you want to find it. (And although these cards are smaller than the original Mamluk cards, they are still a lot bigger than standard tarot size cards, and printing things in sizes and quantities other than the standard sizes and quantities that these playing card printing companies are optimised for will of course have an effect on the cost.)

[Bradius]

This deck is 81% funded with 5 days to go. If anyone is on the fence, please back this so it can see the light of day.

[Merlebird]

Just received this campaign update:

Thanks to Desmond Meraz who proposed this campaign to the Radius Foundation, and thanks to the Radius Foundation who instantly made a generous contribution, the funding jumped to 8000 Euros on the dot today.

That means: thanks to everybody of you who supported the project and spread the word, the funding goal has been reached! There are four days left now for everyone sitting on the fence to jump in without the risk of acting without a result. If you pledge now, you will get your deck.

Thanks again, everybody, and best regards

Ulrich

This is the first time I've heard of the "Radius Foundation"; it's presumably this one, which, to be honest, looks a bit... ehh, Moonie-ish? But hell, their money's as green as anybody else's.

[Merlebird]

The latest update revealed the back design:



I like it! But I do wonder whether the pattern was largely decided upon before the receipt of the grant from the Radius Foundation, or after, considering they apparently have done some other projects featuring similar designs. Well, if the end product looks good, I guess....

[shimmering]

I can't imagine there is anything underhand going on. That foundation obviously has some sort of interest in Islamic art, and I imagine that's why they supported this project in the first place.

These kinds of geometric patterns are very common in Mamluk art, and in Islamic art in general, especially complicated patterns with 10-fold (like this one) or 12-fold symmetry. It's maybe even a bit curious that such patterns seem absent in the original Mamluk cards ... you only see the square / 8-fold star pattern on the king cards. So a designer working with Mamluk designs will definitely be familiar with patterns like this one and won't need external influences to push them in this direction. (I mean for example, I initially went this route for one of the extra cards (front of card) in my own Mamluk deck though I did later abandon this idea in favour of floral designs typical of the rest of the cards.)

So I don't think you need to worry about that. That's what I think anyway.

ETA: picture

[Smocito]

I've received the cards today.

I'll try to post pictures later today or tomorrow (more likely).

The cards look very good and there is also a book separator and a folded paper showing where the "pips" are.

I'm sure everybody who has backed these will be very glad they did.

[Bradius]

The design was developed prior to the foundation supporting the creation of the decks and was based on it's name sake as the designer has spend many years studying the historical deck to do this recreation. It is great that the foundation supported the project so this important recreation could be completed. I can't wait to see more photos as I wait for mine to make the trip across the pond.

[Smocito]

Here are the photos

[Smocito]

Close up on one card

Example of each suit

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Bookpage separator (I'm not sure if you call it that in English)

[Smocito]

The box comes with a folded flyer (that you've seen in some of the previous photos) and with a strip of cardboard that you're supposed to fold and to place in the box to prevent the cards from moving around.
The instructions are included and it's not as hard as IKEA's furniture (I felt no need to use glue, but the instructions advise you to glue the fold on the paper)

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[Bradius]

If anyone missed this set on Kickstarter or wants an extra set, they are available in the US from the website below for $52, which is slightly less than on Kickstarter. I would be a bit upset that they are being sold cheaper, but I am glad to help get these produced. I might still get a second set once I have my Kickstarter set in hand. I am looking forward to getting my set soon.

https://www.collectarot.com/MULUK-WA-NU ... n-2019.htm

[Azazaaz]

My only complaint if there needs to be one would be about the cutting. On my deck, the corners are a bit messy. Still, it's a beautiful piece to have in a collection. The kartograme edition is fantastic.

Do you know of other Mamluk recreations? I have the Cartamundi one and the Viceroys that were inspired by Mamluk playing cards but my quest ended there.

[shimmering]

Do you know of other Mamluk recreations? I have the Cartamundi one and the Viceroys that were inspired by Mamluk playing cards but my quest ended there.

As far as I know, the three you mention:

- The Cartamundi 1970s deck (Muluk wa-nuwwab), facsimilie edition of the Mamluk cards with recreations of missing cards (according to a 56-card deck model)

- Trzes's deck, recreations of all surviving cards, recreations of the missing cards (according to a different 56-card deck model ...) plus recreations of the "extra" Mamluk cards with a different style

- My Viceroys deck, poker size cards, French suits, drawn in the Mamluk style (with Mamluk-style court cards)

Beyond this:

I know John Jordan has been working in this area for some years (Variant Ventures / Variant of Normal ... he posts on PCF but I don't think here). I am not sure what his plans are for publishing any deck. I think he may have a very simplifed b/w version (maybe available, now or in the past, maybe not) and has been working on something in colour.

And I know Alex Chin posted some time ago that he was planning on doing something with poker-size cards, Mamluk-style decoration, but with illustrated court cards, maybe mixed suits. He shared an image, but I at least have not heard anything since then.

That's all I know.

There was one poker-size playing card deck on Kickstarter a few years ago called (I think) Sultana that said it was inspired by the Mamluk cards, but for me it had nothing visibly in common with the Mamluk designs beyond the pattern on the tuck box. Maybe you'll disagree, I don't know.

[Azazaaz]

Beyond this:

I know John Jordan has been working in this area for some years (Variant Ventures / Variant of Normal ... he posts on PCF but I don't think here). I am not sure what his plans are for publishing any deck. I think he may have a very simplifed b/w version (maybe available, now or in the past, maybe not) and has been working on something in colour.

And I know Alex Chin posted some time ago that he was planning on doing something with poker-size cards, Mamluk-style decoration, but with illustrated court cards, maybe mixed suits. He shared an image, but I at least have not heard anything since then.

That's all I know.

There was one poker-size playing card deck on Kickstarter a few years ago called (I think) Sultana that said it was inspired by the Mamluk cards, but for me it had nothing visibly in common with the Mamluk designs beyond the pattern on the tuck box. Maybe you'll disagree, I don't know.

Thanks, that is very informative, really appreciated!

[Eric Lee]

If anyone missed this set on Kickstarter or wants an extra set, they are available in the US from the website below for $52, which is slightly less than on Kickstarter. I would be a bit upset that they are being sold cheaper, but I am glad to help get these produced. I might still get a second set once I have my Kickstarter set in hand. I am looking forward to getting my set soon.

https://www.collectarot.com/MULUK-WA-NU ... n-2019.htm

Only 2 more left. So better grab them while you still can.

[Bradius]

An update from the creator, Ulrich, about a new deck he is planning to launch on Kickstarter on May 18:

"It has been a while since “Trzes’ Mamluk deck” has been released. It has been sold out for quite a while now, and a second edition is planned for the first half of 2024.

In the meantime, I am starting a new campaign. It is the recreation of the so-called Moorish deck (https://www.wopc.co.uk/spain/moorish/index ) from Spain around 1420. This is the second one of only two known card decks following the Mamluk pattern. Apart from those, only a few fragments of single cards are known.

I have done a recreation of this deck in a similar way as a did with the Topkapi deck, although the design of the Moorish deck is much plainer and simpler.

Here is the campaign preview page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ur ... 522566171/ I hope to get the campaign launched on Mai 18th. Also, fellow artist Lynyrd-Gym Marquez Narciso has made a promotional video about this little project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98cz4nb_jT4"

[GandalfPC]

They are going to run a second campaign for Trzes’ Mamluk soon

[Bradius]

They make cool bookmarks too.

[GandalfPC]

2nd edition launched

[Honeybee]

Big and Beautiful but expensive and too hard to differentiate between cards for my old eyes (all 5 of them )

[Bradius]

I just saw that he is making a reprint. I love the set and encourage those that missed it to consider picking it up.