Labelle Playing Cards - Live on Kickstarter

[CBJ]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lab ... d-by-uspcc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



























CBJ

[Modi]

I want to like these, But for some reason I just can't put my finger on I don't. The Back isn't bad but nothing else is really doing it for me.

[LaBelle]

Well, Modi... I do thank you for your "want" of liking them. Maybe they're not for you. If you ever put your finger on it, I would certainly welcome your thoughts.

I am Jean LaBelle and I created the cards. Personally, I have put many years into my thoughts of these. I wanted the Back to be a striking and bold design that had a air and mood about it. Also, I have always wanted the art to be somewhat based on playing card traditions... yet, have an updated look and alluring style. Something that would stand out and be beautiful in of it's appearance.

Also, I put a lot of consideration in that of a simple line or stroke in artworks.

The Joker is a bit misleading in of the deck's overall art. The Joker is meant to be slightly different in of it's characterization. It stands alone and apart from the other cards.

You may find that you might like to see and learn a bit more about the deck and you could do that at the website that I created for the project.

It can be found at: LABELLECARDS.com

Well, there are a lot of decks out there these days. But, I do know that what you see in mine... is truly the result of years of thoughts and dreams.

Jean~*

[DukeBoy]

First off welcome to the forum Mr. LaBelle.

I too want to like the deck. The issue for me seems to be the mix of themes, the joker aside. The box front seems to hint at a pin-up art style. The face cards remind me of the golden age of Hollywood, especially the queens. The skulls and scroll work on the numbers and backs evoke a Voo-Doo element. The biggest drawback for me is the skulls as they do not seem to mesh well for me with the rest of the deck elements. Although I like the back design on its own it does not seem to sit well with the box and face cards. I love the Angels; your father would be honored. Well this is my two cents on the deck at this time I wish you luck in the campaign and I will keep my eye on it.

[Russell]

Did you even clear the artwork (nudity) with USPCC yet?

[DukeBoy]

Did you even clear the artwork (nudity) with USPCC yet?

I was wondering about that too, but thought maybe since it was not a bike deck it would pass.

[Russell]

Did you even clear the artwork (nudity) with USPCC yet?

I was wondering about that too, but thought maybe since it was not a bike deck it would pass.

Still says USPCC on the spine... I wonder if he asked first, or just started taking money.

[zsalman]

USPCC definitely won't let you use Bike branding on anything that doesn't pass their content restrictions, and that includes putting anything on the box that says USPCC or makes any reference to Air-Cushion Finish, Magic Finish, or anything else Bicycle-related.

But if they are willing to print the kind of artwork on my SurrealScapes deck, I can't imagine that they would have a problem with simple line drawings.

[CBJ]

Well, Modi... I do thank you for your "want" of liking them. Maybe they're not for you. If you ever put your finger on it, I would certainly welcome your thoughts.

I am Jean LaBelle and I created the cards. Personally, I have put many years into my thoughts of these. I wanted the Back to be a striking and bold design that had a air and mood about it. Also, I have always wanted the art to be somewhat based on playing card traditions... yet, have an updated look and alluring style. Something that would stand out and be beautiful in of it's appearance.

Also, I put a lot of consideration in that of a simple line or stroke in artworks.

The Joker is a bit misleading in of the deck's overall art. The Joker is meant to be slightly different in of it's characterization. It stands alone and apart from the other cards.

You may find that you might like to see and learn a bit more about the deck and you could do that at the website that I created for the project.

It can be found at: LABELLECARDS.com

Well, there are a lot of decks out there these days. But, I do know that what you see in mine... is truly the result of years of thoughts and dreams.

Jean~*

Welcome! I'm glad you took me up on my invite to join the forum!

CBJ

[chess]

I'm on the fence with this one. I want to like it but I'm not quite digging the court cards.

[Russell]

But if they are willing to print the kind of artwork on my SurrealScapes deck, I can't imagine that they would have a problem with simple line drawings.

So you havent even asked? This is not a good sign of designer responsibility.

--------------

Again, I urge people to back out until he has confirmation he can print it. He might have the best intentions and be an honest person, but that wont stop USPCC from saying 'no' to the design.

[BMPokerworld]

But if they are willing to print the kind of artwork on my SurrealScapes deck, I can't imagine that they would have a problem with simple line drawings.

So you havent even asked? This is not a good sign of designer responsibility.

--------------

Again, I urge people to back out until he has confirmation he can print it. He might have the best intentions and be an honest person, but that wont stop USPCC from saying 'no' to the design.

I have no idea whether or not they will accept this deck. They did print the inferno deck, but in order to get in through, Owen couldn't use the Bicycle brand. Maybe that will be the case here.

Thanks!

[MagikFingerz]

But if they are willing to print the kind of artwork on my SurrealScapes deck, I can't imagine that they would have a problem with simple line drawings.

So you havent even asked? This is not a good sign of designer responsibility.

--------------

Again, I urge people to back out until he has confirmation he can print it. He might have the best intentions and be an honest person, but that wont stop USPCC from saying 'no' to the design.

Seems like you're talking to zsalman like he's the creator of this deck, which he is not. Just FYI

[Russell]

Seems like you're talking to zsalman like he's the creator of this deck, which he is not. Just FYI

Oops, I must have misread.

Still though...

[zsalman]

No problem. But yes, the creator of this particular should clear his artwork with USPCC like I did. For my deck, I sent them all the images that would end up on the cards and the tuckbox and I asked them to give me their approval in writing that the images would be okay to print. They were okay with the images, but then when it came time to print the mockup deck, they told me I had to take the "Air-Cushion finish" reference off the tuckbox, as well as the text reading "Manufactured by the United States Playing Card Company".

Mr. Labelle should give Tiffany at USPCC and call and run his artwork by her.

[LaBelle]

Wow.

But I had no idea just how tough many of you are to your appreciation of artistic expression. Not that I do not welcome critism, I do greatly regard any and all of your thoughts. It's just that the overall tone seems definately to balance toward the negetive side of consideration. I gather that maybe many of you here are card creators other than simply enthusiasts. But, as creators, do you not understand art as more subjective? I do... and I certainly respect each artist's varying ideas.

Yes, to dukeboy, there could be considered a 'mix of themes' to this art piece, that IS a way of seeing it. But, I had already tried to be very clear in that I had worked many years on my card ideas and bringing it all together - it represents several phases of my perspective to this first deck. But, does this make a good deck??? Well, to me, the journey of my path to this deck... does incur a harmony to it.

...Consider a Bicycle deck. The facecards are a Bicycle tradition. Sometimes they will put out a different 'Back' design, but they may keep their traditional facecards... Well, as I had worked many years to the development of my facecards, they sort of became the 'traditional' facecards to my 'LaBelle' card designs. I also had put much consideration in that they would lend a style and ode to that of traditional facecard designs. But the Back is something more... it speaks an emotion all it's own, and yet... there is in fact a synergy, just as there is to any sort of Back that would be apllied to standard Bikes.

To me, art is a varied emotion. Sometimes there is complete balance, sometimes there is not. I grew up in house filled with art. My father instilled in me a great appreciation of all styles and mediums in art, including music. He introduced me to many art styles from impressionism, to abstract, to realism, to pop art, to Surrealism... of which he was a big supporter of. Still, I did learn even as a child. that not everyone like Picasso. It seemed odd to me... then I grew to - at least a little better - understand humans and the varied psychology of it all.

But, still... are you actually going to tell me that you, being artists, or admirers of art, could possible be suggesting that the beauty of the human form is somehow distasteful? I have long been inspired by many great works of art throughout our history from masters such as Rembrandt, Degas, and Renoir and never once considered a nude form as distasteful. Though, I do understand that certain sorts might.

Maybe my deck won't be funded. Maybe I'll then learn even a little more about our world. Then, I will persist, as I always have, to enjoy art and try to always apply my personal emotion to what I do. I do greatly appreciate if someone sees something good in what I do, but, I also understand when they do not. We are each individual and we all have our own tastes - and that is a great thing... it's what makes this world special.

Still, each day we learn something new. And throughout my life, I learned that all is to be admired. I wrote of this even in my Bio on Kickstarter, or do you read that far into an artist's being? I wrote that, "all arts are magical to me... and in so many ways, everything is art."

And, no, I'm not going to deeply address the idea that I 'hadn't even cleared the art with USPCC'. I already stated that I have been working very hard on this project for years. However, I understand the public's varied viewpoints. So, yes. it's cleared. Now, it's just up to those to clear it for themselves.

Well, I think open forums are a good thing, but I do wish that people in a artistic world were more supportive of the varied efforts of artistic expression. My life of art is one of great struggle. I, myself, barely survive financially. For me, devoting my life to art is one of great struggle. Some people have it easier. Our world is certainly diverse, but the support of artist is slim. Many things out there that IS great art, isn't even 'looked' at as Art by the average citizen... like the shape of a bar of soap. How many people these days visit art museums?

Oh well, I do appreciate the good and the bad. That is what makes life. I believe that we should not only enjoy the good times... but also revel in the bad times too. The ups ad downs of life is what life is all about. ...it's just a different perspective. Sort of a mystery. ...kinda like my cards.

Hey, maybe you'd like to see how I also work to bring in some of my living expenses. I play music at various restaurants and venues around town. You can see the website that I made for this... if you want...

You can go to: jeanlabelle.com

Well, take care.

Jean~*

[walrus]

I think we all appreciate the work anybody puts into the playing cards we see here.
I too do music and have gone from being booed off the stage to a standing ovation.
Both of which still happen from time to time. I understand what you are saying about the deck.
Tracing the ups and downs and appreciating them all. This has been a common theme in many
art forms. As I progress in my attempts to publish some writtings I have been critiqued on abstract thoughts that were more abstact than that which I wrote.
I like much of this deck. The AoS is stunning but as others have said the deck as a whole I find a bit disjointed. Perhaps it is what you were going for I just think it did not translate well
on this particular canvas. I respect anybody who puts there soul into creating so I will be backing you. Perhaps that is a good compliment.

[max]

I like the style of this deck, and personally like a lot the story around the deck.

Good luck!

[LaBelle]

To walrus: I did feel a personal understanding in of what you conveyed. Experiences such as that are what has led me to a better understanding - and appreciation - of art and life.

Yes, the art of this deck is, in fact, something I was 'going for'. It has come by way of a long journey for me. I am sorry if it came together too disjointed. But, to me, there is a subtle harmony to it all. The skulls do have their place, as do the angels, as do the faces... it is, I guess, by way of me and my life.

I do appreciate your thoughts, walrus. And maybe my deck is kinda like John even once said: "I am he as you are he as you are me... And we are all together... See how they Run... like pigs from a gun... See how they fly........ I'm crying.

[zsalman]

Wow.

But I had no idea just how tough many of you are to your appreciation of artistic expression. Not that I do not welcome critism, I do greatly regard any and all of your thoughts. It's just that the overall tone seems definately to balance toward the negetive side of consideration. I gather that maybe many of you here are card creators other than simply enthusiasts. But, as creators, do you not understand art as more subjective? I do... and I certainly respect each artist's varying ideas.

Jean,

The people who have commented about your deck and your art just want to see you deck succeed. Yes, indeed art is subjective, and one man's beauty is another man's beast. But if you're making art for more than just yourself, i.e. if you want other people to appreciate your art as well and subsequently give you money for it, it's helpful to solicit opinions on how your art might be received. If you start to notice themes or trends in those opinions, you can incorporate that feedback into your art and thus increase its appeal in the market: your audience.

But, still... are you actually going to tell me that you, being artists, or admirers of art, could possible be suggesting that the beauty of the human form is somehow distasteful? I have long been inspired by many great works of art throughout our history from masters such as Rembrandt, Degas, and Renoir and never once considered a nude form as distasteful. Though, I do understand that certain sorts might.

I would never tell you that the beauty of the human form is distasteful. Indeed, my SurrealScapes deck has a lot more unclothed female form in it than yours, in fact, the entire deck consists of that, and I personally believe that my artwork conveys that form in a very appreciative and positive way. But there are people in the world who have a problem with such things. That doesn't mean that you should change your artwork or sacrifice your vision to appease them. It just means that there are some people who would be put off by such art.

And, no, I'm not going to deeply address the idea that I 'hadn't even cleared the art with USPCC'. I already stated that I have been working very hard on this project for years. However, I understand the public's varied viewpoints. So, yes. it's cleared. Now, it's just up to those to clear it for themselves.

I can't tell from this statement if you're being figurative or literal, so I'll just give you my experience. When I called the USPCC to talk to them about the SurrealScapes deck, they told me that they have certain content restrictions on what they will and will not print. In fact, they sent me a document outlining those restrictions. If I wanted them to print my deck, then I had to make my artwork conform to those standards, which in my case meant doing a good bit of censoring on my images. Also, I could not put anything on the tuckbox that made any reference to USPCC or any of their trademarks. I did not want to end up a situation where I got my deck funded on Kickstarter with hundreds of backers, only to have the USPCC refuse to print my deck because it violated their standards. So I went back and altered my images and then submitted them to USPCC for review. They gave me their approval and then I completed the design of the deck. As an extra level of certainty, I ordered a mockup deck printing from them, so they took my artwork straight through to final print, albeit not on the offset press. That confirmed to me that they will be able to print my deck once the Kickstarter campaign was funded. Also, doing the mockup deck highlighted some issues with the design that I ended up fixing and wouldn't have seen otherwise.

If you want to be sure that your deck will be accepted by the USPCC, send them your artwork and have them give you their approval in writing. If you've already done that, then you're good to go.

Well, I think open forums are a good thing, but I do wish that people in a artistic world were more supportive of the varied efforts of artistic expression. My life of art is one of great struggle. I, myself, barely survive financially. For me, devoting my life to art is one of great struggle. Some people have it easier. Our world is certainly diverse, but the support of artist is slim. Many things out there that IS great art, isn't even 'looked' at as Art by the average citizen... like the shape of a bar of soap. How many people these days visit art museums?

Tastes in art are as varied as tastes in music, in food, in clothing, and whatever else. Again, I speak to you as a fellow artist: sometimes the art that you feel compelled to create just doesn't resonate with people. I could point to my SurrealScapes deck as the perfect example of that. I spent 2 years developing my image projection technique, and then another 3 years and several thousands dollars to hire models and do the photography to create the images, and then another 6 months of going back and forth on the design and layout of the deck itself. It's now up on Kickstarter and it's only 12% funded with more than 42% of the total project time elapsed. Why isn't it as appealing to people as other playing card decks, or even other art projects on Kickstarter for that matter? Who really knows? I'm sure there are many reasons, but the biggest reason I come to is that this art just doesn't move people in the same way it moves me. Okay, that's fine. So I can keep creating this art because I enjoy doing it, but I shouldn't hope to realize any financial return from it, nor expect it to be widely accepted. Or I could try to change it to make it more broadly appealing. For me personally, I've reached the end of my journey with this particular type of art and I'm ready to move on to other things. I was hoping the deck would get funded and I could at least have something out there with my SurrealScapes art on it, but perhaps that's just not meant to be.

Take the comments here to heart, even the negative ones, because the fact is that if no one cared about your art or your process, they wouldn't even comment at all. That they do comment means that they have at least some interest in seeing you succed.

[LaBelle]

to: zsalman
What you have wrote means very much to me. I totally appreciate the effort which you put into the sharing of your thoughts. I have looked much at your art and I am blown away by the elaborate vision that it all has. I have intended to back your deck, but with all that has been going on lately, I hadn't got around to it yet. As far as my statement about the art being cleared with USPCC; what I meant was that the forum just seemed so quick to jump to the conclusion that art such as that would not be cleared and therefore would be considered distasteful... when I certainly had no intentions to be distasteful, any more than you with your art or Degas did. It's not that that sort of viewpoint is a surprise to me... but that I was surprised to see it here where art should be more understood. Also, that the implication was so weighed towards the fact that it would NOT be cleared. I had spent much time going over this with USPCC and yes they do have guidelines. Possibly, with your art being of a photographic nature, they wanted to take futher note of it. Also, I had never intended this to be a Bike Branded deck from the very get go... and so, that may have made a difference in the whole decisionary process. It is a representation of my art: LaBelle. I would love to have had a mock up produced but, wowie kazowie, that's a tall order financially!!! However, the fact that you took those extra measures is to be appreciated in of your focus to excellence.

I'm going to pledge a support to your deck right now. I am but a poor boy, and will only be able to pledge for 1 deck. But I think that your Art, your Efforts, your Caring about art, and even everyone elses, like my meger effort... is highly commendable. I do hope that you succeed... your specialized art has created the most unique and original deck that I have ever seen.

Other's can see his art here:
http://kck.st/WGZ03r" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good Luck, Zaid.

Jean~*

[DukeBoy]

Jean,
I like all of your art as pieces. The issue is I tend to love decks that have one clear theme throughout the deck. As I said I like all of it, it just does not seem to go together. It would be like having multiple style of art on the same canvas, the left as art nouveau, the center impressionist, the right renaissance. A deck to me is a single canvas. I tend to not like the decks that have traditional courts, even the re-colored or just facial changes. I am not a magician so I want the decks as fully custom as they can come. The decks such as Army Men and Black Tie are as close to traditional as I really want to go. I have picked up decks that do not have the custom courts because the box and backs and the few changes are really good, but not in the amount that I normally would. I am on the fence now because I like the parts of the decks themselves as pieces.

In regards to the USPC printing the deck, I think they would print it as is but with the references you had: the Company name, address and finish type, we wondered if they had seen it.

[zsalman]

Jean,

Thank you very much for your support! I have backed your project as well, we artists need to stick together!

I'd like to give you some more detailed feedback on your deck, in the hopes that you might be able to make some small tweaks and really bring your deck design together. I know you have tried to incorporate a lot ideas, emotions, and backstory into this deck. But perhaps there is too much, and it's all getting muddled togehter. It's like trying to watch TV and listen to the stereo at the same time.

As DukeBoy points out, there is no thematic unity in the deck. You have different styles and different moods on the various elements of the deck and they don't all mesh together. You have named this deck "The Mystic" so we are expecting, hoping, to see elements of mystery and mysticism and be taken to that place when we view or handle this deck.

You have the card back design which is dark and foreboding, but you have chosen highly saturated primary colors throughout the deck, which create a light and upbeat feeling. Choosing more muted, non-primary colors would help better set the tone of mystery that it seems you're going for.

As for the courts, I agree that they are a little too tradtionally-inspired. You have tried to put a different spin on them, and I can see that they might evoke images of gypsies and psychics with tarot cards and crystal balls, but they don't take me all the way there. Again, color choice is a big factor here, but also the way the courts themselves are drawn.

The AoS is nice, and I know that the angel image is modeled after your father's 1947 drawing, but I don't think it works here. Having her back towards us with her weight shifted to one side evokes a glamour pose to me, something you might see in a fashion magazine. I know about that because I'm always trying to get my models to NOT stand that way! Perhaps having her facing us in a more squared off pose would work better. In fact, I think the way the angel is drawn on the front of the tuckbox could work, too. Again, we're trying to evoke mystery, yes? Another option is to use your T-shirt design instead. I think that would actually work very well.

The Joker is another area where I feel like things are comical, light, and upbeat, rather than mysterious. When I see this Joker, I can't help but think of the Riddler from Batman. Again, color choices, but also the drawing style. I think a more representational drawing would help, i.e. having his skull look like the skull on the card back and the T-shirt. That would also help give you some much needed unity.

Finally, the spot cards. They're just, well, plain. They deserve to be more than that. The pips are custom, but they still look like traditional pips. How about some more adventure with the pip designs? Really push the limit and design pips that we haven't seen before and that are mystical and mysterious. And how about a different arrangement of the pips on the cards? Maybe a little off-balance arrangement that makes me a feel a little unsure of things as I'm looking at the cards?

What about the indices? They look pretty stoic. Perhaps you could do some custom lettering? At least give us some serifs and flourishes on the lettering to provide some more flow.

Sometimes all it takes is giving yourself permission to step outside the box and just do something new. Maybe you haven't given yourself that permission yet, but I think there's a lot of room here to be adventurous while still creating a deck that is beautiful as well as functional.

Zaid

[LaBelle]

To: DukeBoy,
I completely understand and respect that. It really makes perfect sense, especially in the sense of a "CUSTOM" art deck. And then, therefore, the Deck should be the 'complete' canvas. It's just that I took a different approach. And you're input to this experience is greatly enlightening. Even if my deck isn't successful, I will have gained a great experience overall. But, maybe it will still be, and then it will be there to be apart of the total experience. ~ Jean

[LaBelle]

Great input, Ziad ...and I definately appreciate the concerted effort. Though, it does also remind me of some of the reasons that I actually dIdn't take those measures...

So, many of the 'Custom' cards that I see actually DO 'push the limits' and 'step outside the box' so to speak with their designs. And I do often like what is done. However, I have been a deep fan of playing cards since I was a boy in the early 1970's. And I love the card traditions. I love the traditional number cards. I had even at one point considered doing a 'dark' back design and using the 'actual' traditional court and number cards as the faces.

To me, card 'Back' designs have always stood apart. I don't know, it just does to me. The Back is it's own being. Then, there are the faces... on the 'Other Side'. Another Land... like in Oz... Or Alice in Wonderland. There are TWO sides to the cards... and yet they interact. But, to me, not ALWAYS in a perfectly congruent manner. It's fine that they would... but, not necessary in the 'standard' idea for me. In fact it is also actually Why I went with brighter primary colors on the faces... they would have a vividness that actually contrasted the deep black of the OTHER side. There is often considered an 'Other' side in of the Mysteries of life and Magic. Even Night is in dark contrast to the light of Day, and yet they work together to create a world that is particular to what we live in and experience. Should All this be in 'ONE' deck? Maybe not... but... maybe so. That I did it, is that it exists. And that is the art of it. If it can only be funded and then brought to a reality.

It's the same idea with the Joker... is it a GOOD idea? Maybe not. I guess that's up to the beholder. But, the Joker is meant to be his own distinct personallity. He doesn't FIT in with the others. He doesn't flow along with the plan. He is the deviant. Yes, he may be Freakish to the art of the rest of the deck... and not fit in... but that is why he is the deviant... and that is why he is the Joker.

~*

[walrus]

To walrus: I did feel a personal understanding in of what you conveyed. Experiences such as that are what has led me to a better understanding - and appreciation - of art and life.

Yes, the art of this deck is, in fact, something I was 'going for'. It has come by way of a long journey for me. I am sorry if it came together too disjointed. But, to me, there is a subtle harmony to it all. The skulls do have their place, as do the angels, as do the faces... it is, I guess, by way of me and my life.

I do appreciate your thoughts, walrus. And maybe my deck is kinda like John even once said: "I am he as you are he as you are me... And we are all together... See how they Run... like pigs from a gun... See how they fly........ I'm crying.

Damn you LaBelle, you had to quote the Beatles. Now I love your cards. Is there a limit on how many bricks I can buy? What are you doing Friday night

[Sharpie]

To walrus: I did feel a personal understanding in of what you conveyed. Experiences such as that are what has led me to a better understanding - and appreciation - of art and life.

Yes, the art of this deck is, in fact, something I was 'going for'. It has come by way of a long journey for me. I am sorry if it came together too disjointed. But, to me, there is a subtle harmony to it all. The skulls do have their place, as do the angels, as do the faces... it is, I guess, by way of me and my life.

I do appreciate your thoughts, walrus. And maybe my deck is kinda like John even once said: "I am he as you are he as you are me... And we are all together... See how they Run... like pigs from a gun... See how they fly........ I'm crying.

Damn you LaBelle, you had to quote the Beatles. Now I love your cards. Is there a limit on how many bricks I can buy? What are you doing Friday night

...awkward...

[LaBelle]

I truly do appreciate this forum and I invite all of you to take another look at what I have done with this deck... and my KIckstarter Project that id going on now.

I worked hard and long on making this deck something a little different, moody and yet elegant... still, with an homage to classic and traditional card designs.

Some of you that have earlier seen the deck design, have commended my work... some have said that they didn't care for it... but, I invite you to please take another look at it, while my project still has a chance.

If you did choose to support this. It would bring a lifetime of considerations to a whole new beginning... as I do want to make future new and different card decks... still, this deck was to be a start to it all, as I have sacraficed a lot to be able to even get to this point.

http://kck.st/YKkOrt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyway, I do apprecite the forum here and all that I learn from it.

~ Jean

MERGED

[alric]

I think you have a very nice background story about your father, so I wish you the best of luck. However, the moment you went with skulls and mild nudity, you basically confined yourself to a certain demographic so you probably won't achieve a broad appeal. Having said that, I think a lot of people will still appreciate the high degree of customization you put into the court cards and the spot cards.