Equality and Justice Playing Cards - RELAUNCH 5/18 on KS

[Magistrate1500]

There is a concept behind, the two “lady of Justice” differs to represent the two complementary concepts

I'm sorry, I just don't see the relationship. Perhaps there will be other details in the deck to support what your suggesting, but just from the back designs the concepts don't make sense. You have Lady Justice in her classic pose (blindfolded, scales raised above her head, sword held in lowered arm) on the Equality deck, not the Justice deck. That classic pose is always associated with Justice, therefor more appropriate on the Justice deck. Why would Lady Justice even be on the Equality deck anyways? The only differences in the poses between the two "ladies of Justice" is which arm is raised, with either the scales or the sword.

For arguments sake, let's just say you're equating the scales for Equality and the sword for Justice, so that's simply the reason why the raised scales is on the Equality deck and the raised sword is on the Justice deck. That would be a mis-interpretation of the symbolism of Lady Justice. The scales do not represent equality, they represent the consideration/weighing of judgement. The sword does not represent justice, it represents the power and authority of law. And the blindfold obviously represents impartial neutrality. All these symbols collectively represent Justice. Not Equality.

Equality and Justice are not complementary concepts, by the way. In fact, they are actually antithetical. Equality would make Justice obsolete. Justice only exists to address inequality. So if there is no inequality, or only equality, there is no need for justice.

Look, I realize I'm nitpicking here. But as an attorney who actually has a statue of Lady Justice in my office and are governed by these concepts every time I'm in the courtroom, these inconsistencies are more glaring to me. Most other people probably won't notice or care about any of this, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

Agreed. Good concept and design though. Should turn out great with a tweak or two. Justice and equality are not interchangeable. You are not nit picking. You are properly using your critical thinking skills.

[Conturbia]

wow we have a lawyer and a magistrate here ... there's no way I'm winning an argument with you, literally
Ok, jokes aside, thank you for your feedback, they are always appreciated.

[Conturbia]

I have no idea on what figure could otherwise be used for the Equality deck, but according to google it should be Lady Liberty. I'm not from the US, so does that make sense? When I punched 'lady justice lady liberty' into images this is what I got:

466790-740x740-1383697398-primary.jpg

I mean, that looks like a strong argument to me!

Liberty has been ditched due to the similarities with existing decks. And.. Equality and Liberty are different concepts too..

[shimmering]

As equality is a major figure in the French revolution, you can understand she is represented as an allegorical figure a fair bit in that context. It looks like one of the things she is holding in a typical allegorical representation is a set square (triangle) with a plumb line.

The allegory of justice is I think a lot more common, with scales, sword, and blindfold often. But in many older depictions she doesn't have this blindfold, for example on the old bailey or on typical Marseilles pattern tarot cards.

[ICantShuffle]

You could try a stab at doing an Aequitas deck. Take a step back to the roman ideal of justice and equality in one deck.

The other option is Veritas, truth. There's plenty of mythological material there, if you want a female personification of a complementary concept. Then you could just call the decks Aequitas and Veritas.

[Wizard_of_Os]

You could try a stab at doing an Aequitas deck. Take a step back to the roman ideal of justice and equality in one deck.

The other option is Veritas, truth. There's plenty of mythological material there, if you want a female personification of a complementary concept. Then you could just call the decks Aequitas and Veritas.

+1

[Adonael]

Liberty has been ditched due to the similarities with existing decks. And.. Equality and Liberty are different concepts too..

Oh damn, I guess there would be plenty of decks out there with lady liberty on them. And well, to be fair, so are Justice and Equality yet your plan is to use the same symbol for both . Nothing wrong with being a bit loose with definitions eh?

+1 To the Aequitas & Veritas idea. It conveniently rolls justice and equality into one deck without any changes but the name. Veritas as truth works with the female figure thing too, plenty of statues around such as this one where she's holding what appears to be a giant book:

220px-CanadaStatueTruth_crop.jpg (33.04 KiB) Viewed 2156 times

[vasta41]

Aequitas and veritas will always remind me of one of the greatest movies:

[HFMJ]

Now live

[robcan0630]

I like these, in for a pair. Thanks.

[ICantShuffle]

IT's not like Passione to drop a campaign without dropping in here, first. What gives?

[vasta41]

Backed! Updated OP. I wish the black suits were black instead of green (looks a little Christmasy this way) and I wish the tucks were embossed. Embossing would look really nice on these tucks but alas, it isn't even a stretch goal

[vedus]

I hate these courts. Like, a lot. Unreasonably so.

[RichK]

Still like the courts and colors. Not fan of marked Equality though.

[erniesthings]

Will USPCC print these with the backs and Jokers showing a little bit of nudity on Lady Justice?

[ICantShuffle]

They've printed risqué things before, and I think this falls under artistic expression moreso than risqué.

[vasta41]

If you ask me it's impossible to guess what the USPCC finds acceptable. It seems to be a sliding scale to say the least. Just ask Lee McKenzie.

[macstrat]

I love these decks! Easily backed.

I was reading back thru the thread and thought I would weigh in on something and that is the theme of justice and equality. They go together perfectly IMHO, because you cannot have a concept justice without accepting that all things at their core are, in fact, equal. and since nothing ever is, there will always be an imbalance.

[caniveski]

i have backed, i think these would look classier without the ribbon/ambigram on the backs

[Eric Lee]

Great to see this live. Already more than 30% . Already backed but I do have a small concern regarding the jokers. While that is following how she's portrayed in the pictures, I was wondering if we can get a more PG13 jokers for those of us with young kids.
I personally have no issues as I have Eva and other similar decks from Gio. But I consider them art decks. These decks are close enough to standard to be used for basic gameplay with my friends. They may have an issue with their kids going through the decks and finding the jokers, when we aren't looking.

[JuFiN]

Not looking to debate the no doubt irreparable damage that seeing a tit would cause a child, but I do want to say that the jokers are one of my favorite part of this deck please do not change them!

(Also the back design has the same image on it, only twice! Basically completely topless a that point )

[Eric Lee]

Not looking to debate the no doubt irreparable damage that seeing a tit would cause a child, but I do want to say that the jokers are one of my favorite part of this deck please do not change them!

Hmmm.. missed the detail of the backs there as the image was small enough to overlook on my screen.

As I said, it's not me nor the kids I'm concerned about, but the parents of the kids. (my kids and their friends will probably just make fun of it in their own kiddish manner) Malaysia is quite conservative , with the main city where I live, being more liberal. Still overall nudity like this is frowned on or taboo even.

But looks like I'm in the minority as less than 10% of us backers live in more conservative countries. Just my 2 cents

[Adonael]

As I said, it's not me nor the kids I'm concerned about, but the parents of the kids.

Kowtowing to the hypocritical, ignorant and stupid who can't even use their brains for two seconds and realise how petty and nonsensical they would have to be to care about such a benign non-issue of a thing, should never ever be encouraged. Art should not be restricted because of these people. Trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator, or to keep them happy, is exactly why we have so much absolute shit in the world today. The low used to be lifted up, forced to aspire higher and to question, now they're rewarded and contented for their stupidity. It's wrong. The balance between artistic integrity and financial success is a hard one to find unless you strike lucky, but it's one which should absolutely be fought for.

[Conturbia]

Hi guys, sorry for my absence. I can tell you that I launched the project in the middle of a meeting on my first job, I was presenting on my computer and I just told everyone that I needed 5 minutes, dropped the videoconference, launched the project and rejoined the videoconference. Just to tell you that ... those are hectic times...

As for the nudity, the jokers represent statues and they sometimes have exposed breasts. In this case it's not a sexual innuendo, but the meaning is more linked to the generosity of equality (and justice).

[Conturbia]

I'm really sorry for not being more present here on the forum.

[Conturbia]

Backed! Updated OP. I wish the black suits were black instead of green (looks a little Christmasy this way) and I wish the tucks were embossed. Embossing would look really nice on these tucks but alas, it isn't even a stretch goal

I learned the hard way that Stretch Goals must be announced only when you're sure to print. We'll consider the strech goals later in the campaign (that is short anyway)

[Conturbia]

I hate these courts. Like, a lot. Unreasonably so.

really? Can you please elaborate a little bit more? I'd like to know.

[erniesthings]

Sorry, I wasn’t trying to start a debate on what is appropriate content.
Mostly wanting to know if the art would need to change to stick with current printer or if the art would stay the same and the printer would change.

[Conturbia]

Sorry, I wasn’t trying to start a debate on what is appropriate content.
Mostly wanting to know if the art would need to change to stick with current printer or if the art would stay the same and the printer would change.

We already shared some preliminary images with USPCC, and I will send some other images very soon. Having said that, if a problem arises, all the backers will be adivsed. If the change is major (something like changing the printer - that I don't want to do) I will restart the campaign to be sure that no one is tricked in something they don't want to support.

Covering the breast is not a major change, in my opinion, and if it's requested and our designers accept I would probably not restart the campaign, but these are just speculations now. I have no negative feedback from USPCC so. I will make sure that they know there is a nipple

[vasta41]

If the change is major (something like changing the printer - that I don't want to do) I will restart the campaign to be sure that no one is tricked in something they don't want to support.

Are you reading this, Claude!?