First edition Year 3000 playing cards

[rektz360]

Hi guys I found this on Kickstarter. 1st Edition Year 3000 Playing Cards by KardKraken, via @Kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ka ... kardkraken" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[theCapraAegagrus]

Who. The hell. Is paying all of this money for these f^&*ing overpriced decks?

[Cbkimble]

While the artwork IMHO is superb, $75 for an MPC deck is ridiculous. Even if it is limited to 150.

[PipChick]

some pics pulled from the KS:





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And, if y'all haven't been paying attention, he's been gradually increasing the price for his decks and making them even more "EXTREMELY EXCLUSIVE" with lower print runs;

- 1st campaign, 2500 MPC run : $10EB / $20 non-EB
- 2nd, 3rd & 4th, 250 MPC run : $20EB / $30 non-EB
- 5th campaign, 150 MPC run : $35EB / $50 non-EB
- 6th campaign, 100 MPC run : $50EB / $100 non-EB

To me, this pattern reflects that the creator is incredibly avaricious and is attempting to satisfy his greed by promoting his decks/brand as among the elite, yet not actually caring enough to put in any effort into ensuring top quality in both design and production of the actual cards - not to mention the obvious effort (or lack thereof rather) in his KS campaigns by just copying and pasting literally the same project info, word for word, over and over again for every. single. project.

at this point, I'm just getting kinda sick of Dylan's projects tbh...

Now, as for the design of the cards themselves; they're almost not half-bad and the concept is cool... buuutttt, for the reasons already stated above, I personally have no interest in backing this project (nor others like it from this creator in the future) whatsoever.

[vasta41]

To me, this pattern reflects that the creator is incredibly avaricious and is attempting to satisfy his greed by promoting his decks/brand as among the elite yet not actually caring enough to put in any effort into ensuring top quality in both design and production of the actual cards - not to mention the obvious effort (or lack thereof rather) in his KS campaigns by just copying and pasting literally the same project info, word for word, over and over again for every project.

I agree. The designer clearly has artistic talent and if he put a little more time into it could probably get funded enough to print with one of the better companies. I assume he knows this but would rather try to sell "exclusivity" with a crap printer and keep the profit. Which is too bad because with a few tweaks (most notably the excessive white space on the court cards) this could actually be a great deck IMO.

[MagikFingerz]

Thanks for that additional info, Amy. There's no way I'll ever support a business model like that.

[PipChick]

There's no way I'll ever support a business model like that.

yep, neither would I - and considering the creator's poor track record in regard to delays and lack of updates/communication to backers, it still shocks me that his projects are still somehow able to find support, and especially from repeat backers. Hell, there's already 19 (!!) backers for this project!

I guess I'll just never understand the appeal...

[ICantShuffle]

Man, I liked the artwork, assuming it was going to be a ~$10-$15 USPCC deck.

$75? For an MPC printed deck?

NOPE.

There are a couple designers, all of which post here on UC, that I'd be willing to shell out $75 for one of their decks. And, you usually get a lot of craftsmanship along with incredible artwork at that price point: fully customized tucks, with embossing, foil, foiled cards, backs, etc.

I had to justify spending the $25 for two MPC decks with foiled tucks on the CHAO campaign. Definitely not backing this. The sad part is, the designer would probably be fine printing a 1500 run with USPCC. It's not like there's anything about this deck that they couldn't print, and the artwork and back is cool.

[akicer]

Haha did any one noticed he used the "1st edition" again in this campaign?

His previous deck Kardkraken was selling at $100 because 1. very limited 2. 1st edition of his series

Link to the previous deck : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ka ... playing-ca

[RichK]

Back design is interesting but court transition lines are lazy to me.

[PipChick]

Haha did any one noticed he used the "1st edition" again in this campaign?

His previous deck Kardkraken was selling at $100 because 1. very limited 2. 1st edition of his series

Link to the previous deck : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ka ... playing-ca

yea, apparently he's expanded his hype/buzz-word vocabulary to include "1st edition" along with repeating multiple times over just how "limited" & "exclusive" his decks are...

[portcullis]

Backed one of his earlier campaigns which was significantly cheaper than these ($40 the pair, shipped). They're nice and a different design in my collection, but I wouldn't rush back to another campaign. The last few I've seen him create appear to have vindicated this decision. It's a shame, cos I have to admit to really liking his work as an artist.

[KardKraken]

Hello, everyone! I read every comment on this thread and I would like to address some of the comments I have seen come up. First, I know these cards are expensive compared to most cards. I will be coming out with cheaper cards in the near future, like I have in the past. The reason for these decks being pricey is because I have top playing card collectors from around the world that are looking for something special to pick up. Decks like these are made more for them, instead of something for everyone. Lastly, I do realize the campaigns do seem repetitive because I always want to make sure backers get the information they need to know, yet this can come off as repetitive. I appreciate all of the feedback and hope to hear more in the future.

[Cbkimble]

Hello, everyone! I read every comment on this thread and I would like to address some of the comments I have seen come up. First, I know these cards are expensive compared to most cards. I will be coming out with cheaper cards in the near future, like I have in the past. The reason for these decks being pricey is because I have top playing card collectors from around the world that are looking for something special to pick up. Decks like these are made more for them, instead of something for everyone. Lastly, I do realize the campaigns do seem repetitive because I always want to make sure backers get the information they need to know, yet this can come off as repetitive. I appreciate all of the feedback and hope to hear more in the future.

Well, good luck yo you. If someone is willing to pay these prices for your work, good for you. I for one will not purchase a deck from you since apparently the average collector is not your intended group.

[vasta41]

The reason for these decks being pricey is because I have top playing card collectors from around the world that are looking for something special to pick up..

So many contridictions here. Where to begin? First of all, as someone who has over 1,000 decks in his collection I wouldn't say I'm a leading authority on what a "top playing card collector" might be but I sure know a thing or two. And I don't know why any "top collector" would desire a deck of cards printed on a subpar printer (which is putting it nicely). Second of all there are hundreds it not thousands of "special" decks out there for "top collectors" to pick up and 90% of them are far less than $100. So maybe I'm missing something here but I find your reason vauge at best.

[PipChick]

Okay Dylan, let me try to lay this all out as simply and respectfully as I possibly can.

In my fairly short time in this hobby, I've acquired all sorts of different kinds of decks, mostly modern & vintage. Some through backing projects like yours on KS, some bought directly from big retailers/producers or from designers themselves, and others either bought or traded for on the aftermarket both within the UC community and elsewhere.

Some of these decks were designed by renowned artists (of the playing card industry and/or solely within the art community); some by modest and/or amature artists with very little if any name recognition at all. Some including Bicycle-branding; others that are unbranded variations of the same deck; some, reproductions or restorations of already well-known vintage or antique decks, branding aside. Some of these decks mass produced by top print companies for major online retailers; some printed in one-time limited quantities; some self-produced by designers themselves through lesser print companies in smaller print runs for small-fry Etsy shops. Some of these decks featuring premium cardstock for cards & tucks; others, featuring such various print enhancements as metallic inks, foil, metallux, and patented holographics; others that include top-notch hand gilding; and still others that feature new and innovative print processing technology/techniques. Some came with "ultra collector status & prestige" and will likely retain if not appreciate in value in years to come; majority of the others, not so much.

From all these different kinds of decks, I've pledged/spent anywhere from $3 upwards to $100 a deck so it's not necessarily only the steep price range of your decks that turn me off either, but rather your justification for the steep price which I'll get to in just a minute.

Now, with all that laid out, there's quite a few areas in which this particular deck falls remarkable short; in no particular order of significance:

- the cards are not designed by a renowned artist and/or one that has received recognition either here in the playing card community or elsewhere

- the deck is not affiliated with any kind of highly regarded brand nor a design of wide-known recognition

- the deck is not printed by a top quality print company

- the cards nor the tuck offer any other especially noteworthy feature(s) of enhancement

Unfortunately, these aspects don't just apply to this deck, but also to many of the other decks you've offered in past KS campaigns - so it's very much a continued pattern as I've already noted in my previous post. Therefore, it's my own conclusion (and please do correct me if I'm wrong), that the only logical reason you've determined to demand such a premium price point at which to sell your decks is solely based on their "exclusivity" in having them printed in such limited, small print runs - it's because of this unfounded sense of elitism in how you market your brand and your decks along with the unjustified high costs at which they're priced that I personally find truly repulsive. I can only speak for myself, but would dare venture to say that this greatly alienates not only me, but many other enthusiasts of the hobby as well and, obviously in doing so, also greatly reduces much of the consumer market not only for this particular KS campaign, but possibly for other projects you hope to run in the future as it speaks quite loudly in how you wish to portray your brand. I admit that I'm still absolutely shocked that, despite all this, you've still been able to garner support from backers and reach funding for your decks, so, I begrudgingly have to give kudos to you in doing so.

And, as I've already stated, I most certainly don't foresee myself personally ever inclined to owning, or even having the desire to own, any of your decks, regardless of how much more accessible and/or affordable you decide to make them to the general public in the near or distant future and I hope my elaborated reasoning above helps to clarify why not.

I still wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors and, as much as we might never see eye to eye in this matter, I still appreciate your engagement with the UC community.

[Bradius]

Well, as I was writing this, I was basically repeating a lot of what PipChick just stated. I do purchase decks in the $100 range occasionally. Heck, I just paid $325 for a pair of decks this month. That said, that is the exception for me, and definitely not the rule. I just say that to point out that I can and do pay high prices for some decks.

I do like the design, but not made with MPC. Most MPC created decks I have are a low print runs. Jackson Robinson as a very established playing card designer is planning to issue some decks using MPC with a 144 limited run for like $25 each. While I am going to pass on yours mainly because of the cost, I do wish you well and hope your campaign is successful. I also want to thank you for taking the time and listing to us and responding. We want to be up-front with you about our opinions. It is feedback and you can take it as such.

[Conturbia]

We are all living in 2018, but this guy is living in year 3000!

[ICantShuffle]

The reason for these decks being pricey is because I have top playing card collectors from around the world that are looking for something special to pick up. Decks like these are made more for them, instead of something for everyone.

Whoa, he's serious. What? Bro, look, let me educate you:

http://www.oathplayingcards.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.stockholm17.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.kingswildproject.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.thirdwayindustries.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://guruplayingcards.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://montenzi.nz/shop/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://vandacards.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://dealtplayingcards.com/pages/cus ... lographics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These are what cards that come close to what you're charging look like.

Edit: There are quite a few more designers in the range as well, but I think I made my point. Also, don't most of the world's "top card collectors" post on this forum?

[theCapraAegagrus]

Okay Dylan, let me try to lay this all out as simply and respectfully as I possibly can.

In my fairly short time in this hobby, I've acquired all sorts of different kinds of decks, mostly modern & vintage. Some through backing projects like yours on KS, some bought directly from big retailers/producers or from designers themselves, and others either bought or traded for on the aftermarket both within the UC community and elsewhere.

Some of these decks were designed by renowned artists (of the playing card industry and/or solely within the art community); some by modest and/or amature artists with very little if any name recognition at all. Some including Bicycle-branding; others that are unbranded variations of the same deck; some, reproductions or restorations of already well-known vintage or antique decks, branding aside. Some of these decks mass produced by top print companies for major online retailers; some printed in one-time limited quantities; some self-produced by designers themselves through lesser print companies in smaller print runs for small-fry Etsy shops. Some of these decks featuring premium cardstock for cards & tucks; others, featuring such various print enhancements as metallic inks, foil, metallux, and patented holographics; others that include top-notch hand gilding; and still others that feature new and innovative print processing technology/techniques. Some came with "ultra collector status & prestige" and will likely retain if not appreciate in value in years to come; majority of the others, not so much.

From all these different kinds of decks, I've pledged/spent anywhere from $3 upwards to $100 a deck so it's not necessarily only the steep price range of your decks that turn me off either, but rather your justification for the steep price which I'll get to in just a minute.

Now, with all that laid out, there's quite a few areas in which this particular deck falls remarkable short; in no particular order of significance:

- the cards are not designed by a renowned artist and/or one that has received recognition either here in the playing card community or elsewhere

- the deck is not affiliated with any kind of highly regarded brand nor a design of wide-known recognition

- the deck is not printed by a top quality print company

- the cards nor the tuck offer any other especially noteworthy feature(s) of enhancement

Unfortunately, these aspects don't just apply to this deck, but also to many of the other decks you've offered in past KS campaigns - so it's very much a continued pattern as I've already noted in my previous post. Therefore, it's my own conclusion (and please do correct me if I'm wrong), that the only logical reason you've determined to demand such a premium price point at which to sell your decks is solely based on their "exclusivity" in having them printed in such limited, small print runs - it's because of this unfounded sense of elitism in how you market your brand and your decks along with the unjustified high costs at which they're priced that I personally find truly repulsive. I can only speak for myself, but would dare venture to say that this greatly alienates not only me, but many other enthusiasts of the hobby as well and, obviously in doing so, also greatly reduces much of the consumer market not only for this particular KS campaign, but possibly for other projects you hope to run in the future as it speaks quite loudly in how you wish to portray your brand. I admit that I'm still absolutely shocked that, despite all this, you've still been able to garner support from backers and reach funding for your decks, so, I begrudgingly have to give kudos to you in doing so.

And, as I've already stated, I most certainly don't foresee myself personally ever inclined to owning, or even having the desire to own, any of your decks, regardless of how much more accessible and/or affordable you decide to make them to the general public in the near or distant future and I hope my elaborated reasoning above helps to clarify why not.

I still wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors and, as much as we might never see eye to eye in this matter, I still appreciate your engagement with the UC community.

TL;DR: Your deck is not really worth $75, no matter how you want to spin it (only 30 backers is evidence of this).

The creator is pandering to stupid people with gimmick words. For shame.

[PipChick]

uh oh, Victor's commented on the project page in his oh so considerate and tactful nature... *sigh*

Anyways, here's just a snippet of the creator's response:

I know the price point seems high, but that is because this is a 1st edition deck, which is the rarest you can get, meaning collectors around the world are trying to get decks like these.

This logic I find kinda perplexing because as akicer already pointed out, the last project was also hyped as "1st edition" to some vague series. So theoretically, he can just keep launching projects, all of which technically could be considered "1st edition" decks of some proclaimed future series without actually having any intention of ever following up and creating more decks as part of the series that he's hyping...

I'm not accusing him of doing exactly that, buuutttt... being that he's so consistent in his pattern of projects, I also wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be the case. Just speculating...

[vedus]

It's spurious logic at best. Intentionally duplicitous is more likely.

[theCapraAegagrus]

uh oh, Victor's commented on the project page in his oh so considerate and tactful nature... *sigh*

Anyways, here's just a snippet of the creator's response:

I know the price point seems high, but that is because this is a 1st edition deck, which is the rarest you can get, meaning collectors around the world are trying to get decks like these.

This logic I find kinda perplexing because as akicer already pointed out, the last project was also hyped as "1st edition" to some vague series. So theoretically, he can just keep launching projects, all of which technically could be considered "1st edition" decks of some proclaimed future series without actually having any intention of ever following up and creating more decks as part of the series that he's hyping...

I'm not accusing him of doing exactly that, buuutttt... being that he's so consistent in his pattern of projects, I also wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be the case. Just speculating...

I'm in 100% agreement with Dylan, that backing this project just to leave dickhead comments, is irrefutably in bad taste. Victor seriously has no shame. It's a great thing that both he and Bruno don't frequent here anymore.

[Bradius]

I noticed that an EB tier opened up, but even so it seemed more than I was willing to put in right now. Maybe if there were not so many other have-to-get decks, I might have backed for an EB. However, I agree with the above comments. VJose32's move to back just to make that critical comment in the campaign's discussion thread was in poor taste. While I don't agree with the direction of the campaign, I respect creators to run their campaigns as they see fit, and I respect backers to spend their money as they see fit.

Dylan, if it is any consolation, VJose32 is overly critical of about every deck creator. That puts you in some very good company Sometimes it is best to just laugh it off.

[akicer]

People's hate for Victor overwhelms the hate for this deck's price range lol

To some extent I agree with Victor's comment - 1. we should not encourage these type of price bump 2. I do not think any reasonable collector should ever pay 75 for a deck with not bad design with a low quality (not great either), $30 EB price maybe, but not for me

The creator's response on the campaign page makes no sense to me at all. (A guy with 200 decks is a top collector? 200 fontaines/anyone worldwide shit/dg shit? Well again he may referring to a guy on the EB tier, which makes a lot of sense if they really like the design)

Another interesting thing is there are twe buyers for the brick deal, I would like to imagine soon enough they will put it on ebay for maybe $150 with a title "ultra limited to 144", "first edition" hahaha

[Bradius]

akicer, you have some really good points. There is some merit to having a very low custom print run with MPC if you just can't get a broad interest. That said, because you go through MPC, you can get low print runs and still keep the price down. What is kind of odd is that the price is really high. I guess I could get that if say the designer is trying to recover there considerable design and production costs among just a few backers. Still, from what I understand, this design may come out later in a more general release (2nd edition?). There are a number of designers that go with low issue runs through MPC.

I get the criticism. I just don't want the creator to feel like we keep beating his campaign senseless and run him off. I do like his artwork and look forward to seeing more in some other format. Hopefully, he will listen to our constructive comments and it will help produce some really neat decks through USPCC, Cartamundi or other major playing card production company, with a decent number of backing it so it can be a financial success.

[theCapraAegagrus]

People's hate for Victor overwhelms the hate for this deck's price range lol

No, it's the fact that Victor pledged to the campaign just to throw shade at the project. That type of behavior is pathetic. I think we have all publicly agreed, here at UC, that the price is just absolutely ridiculous. We're not all pledging to the Kickstarter and submitting degenerative/hateful/spam posts, though.

[Bradius]

We're not all pledging to the Kickstarter and submitting degenerative/hateful/spam posts, though.

Absolutely correct! We reserve our generative/hateful/spam posts for the UnitedCardists forum.

[flyers3003]

People's hate for Victor overwhelms the hate for this deck's price range lol

No, it's the fact that Victor pledged to the campaign just to throw shade at the project. That type of behavior is pathetic. I think we have all publicly agreed, here at UC, that the price is just absolutely ridiculous. We're not all pledging to the Kickstarter and submitting degenerative/hateful/spam posts, though.

Not defending Victor here, but isn't that what you did on the SVI project?

[theCapraAegagrus]

People's hate for Victor overwhelms the hate for this deck's price range lol

No, it's the fact that Victor pledged to the campaign just to throw shade at the project. That type of behavior is pathetic. I think we have all publicly agreed, here at UC, that the price is just absolutely ridiculous. We're not all pledging to the Kickstarter and submitting degenerative/hateful/spam posts, though.

Not defending Victor here, but isn't that what you did on the SVI project?

Not even close to the same thing.

SVI Group came here to attack the members of UC. Myself, Amy, and Mike commented on that project to warn everyone of potential confidentiality problems.