Ephemerid Playing Cards on Kickstarter

[Gonzalo]

It really irks me when creators get so obviously defensive over constructive criticism. I get that it can be hard to hear negative feedback but if you put your product out there for the world and ask people for their money to fund it you have to be prepared to hear things you won't like. I'm finding this Mr. Cup to be so unprofessional.

I can't see how calling the projet "a sham" can be considered "constructive criticism", but maybe that's me.

[cardistroy]

It really irks me when creators get so obviously defensive over constructive criticism. I get that it can be hard to hear negative feedback but if you put your product out there for the world and ask people for their money to fund it you have to be prepared to hear things you won't like. I'm finding this Mr. Cup to be so unprofessional.

I can't see how calling the projet "a sham" can be considered "constructive criticism", but maybe that's me.

Never said it is a sham.

[CupcakeBaron]

It really irks me when creators get so obviously defensive over constructive criticism. I get that it can be hard to hear negative feedback but if you put your product out there for the world and ask people for their money to fund it you have to be prepared to hear things you won't like. I'm finding this Mr. Cup to be so unprofessional.

I can't see how calling the projet "a sham" can be considered "constructive criticism", but maybe that's me.

When I said constructive criticism that was directed more towards the comments concerning the printer. As for the use of "sham" Cardistroy was venting their frustrations and part of that is over feeling that the backers were duped. If a project is starting to look like a sham then the creator should address that and ease concerns rather than getting caught up in their hurt feelings. I personally don't find any of what Cardistroy said to be harsh.

[Gonzalo]

It really irks me when creators get so obviously defensive over constructive criticism. I get that it can be hard to hear negative feedback but if you put your product out there for the world and ask people for their money to fund it you have to be prepared to hear things you won't like. I'm finding this Mr. Cup to be so unprofessional.

I can't see how calling the projet "a sham" can be considered "constructive criticism", but maybe that's me.

Never said it is a sham.

Well, I think you did: "You're charging quite a lot and in no way I am going to be part of this sham."

You were probably frustrated (and maybe rightly so), but I can ssee how the creator could be equally frustrated by your wording. That's all I'm saying.

[Bradius]

I get what you all are saying about Mr. Cup’s response. I also get that there is a material difference between USPCC and NPCC. At least Mr. Cup stated the possibility of a change and that he was concerned as a creator that USPCC was blowing him off until after he funded. At least he didn’t switch after the campaign.

The problem with his response is that many, who agreed in part, to a greater or lesser degree, to the criticism felt Mr. Cup’s response directed at them too.

[PipChick]

I think a lot of very valid points of concern were brought up, but when communicating, how something is expressed is either going to open the door for honest dialog or mute the point from the emotions inflamed by how those concerns are expressed; unfortunately, I think this is a case of the latter and although I strongly agree that the creator should be a bit more professional in how he responds (or at least be more aware in how his responses will ultimately reflect on him and his brand), the remarks made were a bit provoking to say the least.

It's that whole "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar"; meaning it's much easier to win people over by gentle persuasion than by hostile confrontation.

[Ace]

I was waiting to see what this campaign would develop to, I think some of the updates finalizes my decision.

[PipChick]

I was waiting to see what this campaign would develop to, I think some of the updates finalizes my decision.

It's kinda a shame because I think there's a lot of people that were excited to get on board when this campaign started and now, in the very last week, I'm also considering whether or not to jump ship - with only a few days left to go, I might not be so willing to wait around until the final hours to see a.) the back design of the cards and b.) how this printer debacle will pan out. Hopefully the creator will update us sooner rather than later...

[PipChick]

Back design revealed in the latest update:



And the court diamonds:

[TheGentlemanWake]

Not crazy about the back design. AT ALL.

[Bradius]

I like the back design. It fits the theme. I am still in, but I am sure not going for the box set though.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Back design revealed in the latest update:

Very glad I cancelled my pledge!

[CupcakeBaron]

Not crazy about the back design. AT ALL.

Agreed. We waited so long to see it and I am completely unimpressed. Also the back vaguely reminds me of the High Victorian deck

[rousselle]

As back designs go, I guess this is okay; but for me, it doesn't fit the faces in the least.

Like, not even a little bit.

I really like the latest round of courts. But, not enough to regret my decision to pull my pledge.

[PipChick]

As back designs go, I guess this is okay; but for me, it doesn't fit the faces in the least.

Like, not even a little bit.

agreed; I think this back has finalized my decision to drop. I so badly wanted to love this deck and I guess I was expecting to see a slightly distressed ephemera-inspired design to mirror that of the faces - this back design is just exhaustive and superfluous with detailed linework for the sake of detailed linework serving absolutely no purpose to the overall design whatsoever. How disappointing...

[PrincessTrouble]

Cancelled my pledge. After mulling it over for a few days, I've decided NPCC is a deal breaker for me.

[akicer]

I've decided NPCC is a deal breaker for me.

I really believe the back design (especially the gold one) is the deal breaker for me...

[TheGentlemanWake]

Really, such beautiful concepts on the faces... its almost like the back design was created by a different perosn.

[Ace]

Funny the thing bothering me is the 'Mr Cup' all over the deck.

[Bradius]

I don’t see Mr. Cup all over the deck. Yes, it is on the tuck, the chips (if you get one), the pine box (if you get one) and a presentation card. I haven’t seen his name on the back of every card or any of the cards you will use in a game. The strong use of print and scroll work is very distinctive, and I like it. But I understand it is not for everyone. In looking briefly at his Facebook site, this is typical of his style he uses for calendars and other brands he is doing commercial artwork for. Anyway, I still like the design am staying in, even if not buying tons of extra stuff like the wooden presentation boxes and the chips.

I also realize a lot of us are gasping after the Apothecary and the House of the Rising Spade campaigns. Even good may not be good enough right now. I get that too.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I don’t see Mr. Cup all over the deck. Yes, it is on the tuck, the chips (if you get one), the pine box (if you get one) and a presentation card. I haven’t seen his name on the back of every card or any of the cards you will use in a game. The strong use of print and scroll work is very distinctive, and I like it. But I understand it is not for everyone. In looking briefly at his Facebook site, this is typical of his style he uses for calendars and other brands he is doing commercial artwork for. Anyway, I still like the design am staying in, even if not buying tons of extra stuff like the wooden presentation boxes and the chips.

I also realize a lot of us are gasping after the Apothecary and the House of the Rising Spade campaigns. Even good may not be good enough right now. I get that too.

"Mr. Cup" being part of the branding has been a peeve to me since Day 1, but not enough to stay away. Choosing to print with NPCC turned me off, but also the fact that despite the artwork of the faces being good, I feel like I have enough decks of the source materials (money/stamps/prints) that I don't really need this. The back design is truly awful. It looks like an uncut tuck with a billion lines just for the sake of "detail".

You're right, that with Apothecary Part II, House of the Rising Spade, and don't forget about Thorns/Roses from Minty, simply "good" isn't going to cut it this spring.

[iammrcup]

Hello, I am Mr Cup ! Well, I am Fabien Barral, but as it is a wired french name, I choose Mr Cup as it is easier to remember! I run my blog http://www.mr-cup.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; since 2006, about print and graphic design...

I well read all your exchange and comments here, and I do not want to jump in and have to explain all my choices and decisions... About the "Mr Cup", well it is branding, just like Bicycle cards... But I well heard you and it won't be on the front of the final deck.

For the "wise words", they are of course not from me, but from famous people... just as I did for my letterpress calendar :
https://www.behance.net/gallery/5770051 ... s-Calendar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For the back design, I also rush it a little, and one of the reason was your comments here... anyway, you were true, it was not right... So I now propose to vote for your favorite one! Check the latest update https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/14 ... ts/2176622" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I sorry to see some of you canceling their pledge, in fact, my last night was hard, because I am just a creative try to have a dream coming to life! And as a rookie, I break some rules I did not know about...

Enjoy life!

[TheGentlemanWake]

Okay so Mr Cup can listen to criticism. This is a good sign. He's now offering a choice via vote on IG. This V2 back design I'm on board with. Gold backs, red, black, white faces... its gonna be a very nice cardistry experience ESPECIALLY if he goes USPCC Crushed rather than NPC

[Spectre]

I agree. I think Mr. Cup may have just been having a bad day before. Maybe the bombardment of criticism was to much. I've been messaging him back and forth the past few days and he certainly seems a lot more genuine and accepting of ideas than he was last week. I'm still in for this campaign and I hope the second back design wins... I think it's a better fit for the deck being produced.

[rousselle]

Hello, Fabien, and welcome to UC!

I am very glad to see you join in the conversation here. We can be a little direct sometimes, but everyone here has one thing in common: we love playing cards. Your work clearly has struck a chord with us -- your design has a very appealing aesthetic. Granted, not all will be in love with it, but obviously your work resonates with many of us.

I think your proposed re-designed card backs show a remarkable improvement over your first effort. I think the V2 is particularly harmonious with the design choices you've been making with the card faces. Well done!

It has always seemed to me that the artist who can listen to critique and find in it opportunities to improve his or her work while still staying true to his or her vision ultimately produces far superior results in the end than those who take offense too easily or who compromise their vision too quickly. Your efforts on the card backs seem to show that you understand that tension and are responding well.

As someone who collects playing cards, I also prefer supporting projects where the creator has a good attitude. As you read in our thread, there was some concern about that with regard to this project. Your most recent post here alleviates much of that concern, for me, at least.

Since I dropped my Early Bird pledge for a pair, it's too late for me to get back in at the price I was already just barely willing to pay, but I'll continue to watch your project with interest and I hope it goes well. If they become available, I'll pick up a pair of decks in the after market.

I also hope you'll consider what some of us here are saying about choice of playing card manufacturer. I realize that other card manufacturers may be more difficult to work with or more expensive than NPCC, and you have to go with what makes good business sense, but while I have great respect for Roman and his team at NPCC, I still far prefer the finished product that USPCC, Cartamundi, EPCC/LPCC's Taiwan facility, and WSJ produce. As with excellent design work and excellent art, there's a certain aesthetic to the feel of a playing card deck that some are mastering better than others. (I hold out hope that NPCC will eventually reach that point, but they aren't there just yet.)

From one fellow with a weird French name to another: cheers!

[Bradius]

Fabien, glad you could join us here. I knew you were fine with funding, but your numbers right now are astonishing. I mean you have nearly 1,000 backers and over$43,000 in pledges. That is better than many (MANY) established card designers, much less first time card designers. I am glad I stayed in at my early bird pledge.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Wait a minute, that updated "V1" design isn't bad, and that "V2" design is pretty good...

[wingedpotato]

Voting here for Back v2. Wish I could back this, but I just don't have the funds once shipping is added in. Great looking decks, though!

[Bradius]

I might be able to do a bulk order for any US members at just add-on cost and my domestic shipping. It might save a few bucks if shipping is the chocking point. Just send me a PM if this is amid any interest to you. If enough interest, I could break up a split brick for more savings.

[Bradius]

I have gotten some interest. If I can get one more person in, I’ll get a split brick and the cost for two decks (Standard and deluxe) will only be 14.34 euros, plus my shipping to you.