Ephemerid Playing Cards on Kickstarter

Merlebird · Unread post by **Merlebird** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:47 am

"Words of wisdom?"

I don't know that I would feel comfortable taking life advice from a guy who calls himself "Mister Cup."

theCapraAegagrus · Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:08 am

Yes! I'm in for 2 of each deck.

There are only a few things that I don't like:

1. "MR. CUP" being on the tuck boxes.
2. No court cards posted.*
3. No back design posted.*

Everything else is great.

*These are big deals, but everything looks fantastic so far, so I'd rather be in than out right now.

Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:20 am

I agree the cards look great. Curious to see how the more traditionalists cardists feel regarding the obvious issues with gameplay associated with a deck that has a different color face for each suit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Unread post by **vasta41** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:10 am

TwoPieceFeed wrote:Yes! I'm in for 2 of each deck.

There are only a few things that I don't like:

1. "MR. CUP" being on the tuck boxes.
2. No court cards posted.*
3. No back design posted.*

Everything else is great.

*These are big deals, but everything looks fantastic so far, so I'd rather be in than out right now.

Unless I'm missing it, don't forget to add "No mention of printer" which is an enormous pet peeve of mine with KS campaigns. The printer is a very important piece of information that boggles my mind when people neglect to mention it and makes me question why they left that information out. Could it be because it's a crappy printer? Or could it be a mistake/oversight? Either way the results are usually not good.
Otherwise this isn't a bad looking deck. But even if 2pc.'s concerns are validated and the deck ends up being printed by a reputable printer, it still looses me on the spot cards. There is so much intricate artistry and design in this deck but to simply print the number of the card rather than design nice pips is a huge fail IMO. Why not go the extra mile?

theCapraAegagrus · Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:41 am

vasta41 wrote:
TwoPieceFeed wrote:Yes! I'm in for 2 of each deck.

There are only a few things that I don't like:

1. "MR. CUP" being on the tuck boxes.
2. No court cards posted.*
3. No back design posted.*

Everything else is great.

*These are big deals, but everything looks fantastic so far, so I'd rather be in than out right now.
Unless I'm missing it, don't forget to add "No mention of printer" which is an enormous pet peeve of mine with KS campaigns. The printer is a very important piece of information that boggles my mind when people neglect to mention it and makes me question why they left that information out. Could it be because it's a crappy printer? Or could it be a mistake/oversight? Either way the results are usually not good.
Otherwise this isn't a bad looking deck. But even if 2pc.'s concerns are validated and the deck ends up being printed by a reputable printer, it still looses me on the spot cards. There is so much intricate artistry and design in this deck but to simply print the number of the card rather than design nice pips is a huge fail IMO. Why not go the extra mile?

He said that he's getting quotes from USPCC and LPCC, which is why the printer hasn't been mentioned on the main page yet. The biggest problem for me, aside from the designs not being conceptually complete, is the fact that he doesn't know how to complete fulfillment. I've commented on the project and hope to help him in any ways possible with continued communication. As long as the back design and courts are good then I plan to keep my EB pledge.

Unread post by **Bradius** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:18 am

I agree he needs to get the right printer. I like the designs and am backing it as well.

Casual Pixels · Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:31 pm

Well, for me, it's all about the courts.

With a non-standard design for the pip cards, I'm on stand-by for this one. I like the retro feel; we'll see how this goes.

Full-bleed designs really need to be done right if the deck is going to remain playable. Backs need to be done right and since if it's done on the face of the cards as is done here, it's almost always the case that not all the cards have the same bleed pattern, meaning that small tells happen and the deck can't be used.

I do have display decks, though, that aren't usable for play for different reasons, so it's not an absolute deal-killer, just a strike against in my book.

Website · Unread post by **PipChick** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:10 pm

okay, after a second look-over, I'm tentatively in - I'mma wait til I see some courts before feeling confident enough to keep my pledge though.

Unread post by **rousselle** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:58 pm

The project creator said that they will be working on the cards throughout the campaign. I just want to see a few updates along the way that confirm that. If everything continues in the vein that they've established so far, I'll join in, too. But, until I start seeing more cards, I'll sit on the sidelines.

Unread post by **Bradius** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:23 pm

I like the High Victorian deck, despite just text for the courts. I generally consider it a deal-breaker, but it made up for it in other respects.

Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:08 pm

Just saw the first court (KoS) love it.

theCapraAegagrus · Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:42 am

It looks like the courts are going to be good, so now we just need to see the back design.

cardistroy · Unread post by **cardistroy** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:49 am

TwoPieceFeed wrote:
vasta41 wrote:
TwoPieceFeed wrote:Yes! I'm in for 2 of each deck.

There are only a few things that I don't like:

1. "MR. CUP" being on the tuck boxes.
2. No court cards posted.*
3. No back design posted.*

Everything else is great.

*These are big deals, but everything looks fantastic so far, so I'd rather be in than out right now.
Unless I'm missing it, don't forget to add "No mention of printer" which is an enormous pet peeve of mine with KS campaigns. The printer is a very important piece of information that boggles my mind when people neglect to mention it and makes me question why they left that information out. Could it be because it's a crappy printer? Or could it be a mistake/oversight? Either way the results are usually not good.
Otherwise this isn't a bad looking deck. But even if 2pc.'s concerns are validated and the deck ends up being printed by a reputable printer, it still looses me on the spot cards. There is so much intricate artistry and design in this deck but to simply print the number of the card rather than design nice pips is a huge fail IMO. Why not go the extra mile?
He said that he's getting quotes from USPCC and LPCC, which is why the printer hasn't been mentioned on the main page yet. The biggest problem for me, aside from the designs not being conceptually complete, is the fact that he doesn't know how to complete fulfillment. I've commented on the project and hope to help him in any ways possible with continued communication. As long as the back design and courts are good then I plan to keep my EB pledge.

To be printed by NPCC or Noir Arts.

The crap printer and what he suggested initially was either USPCC and LPCC. Now he is well past his goals and way ahead as well. He won't ahve achieve such backing if he had announced NPCC from the start. Few of my groundrules are not to back anyone who creates unnecessary hype, keeps backers in dark, no mention of printer, lies and is not an illustrator (this guy is a graphic designer who has used various pictures and artwork to create this deck), and this kickstarter breaks all. I will pull out.

cardistroy · Unread post by **cardistroy** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:42 pm

As I don't see my comment on this post, I am retrying again and this time I am posting the comment I made on Kickstarter.

I just made a comment in his last update.

"NPCC...hmm....it is one of the worst printers out there. And, you got us all on here as you declared you were checking with USPCC & Legends when this campaign started.

Noir Arts or NPCC does fulfillment from Ukraine and they have offered very low shipping rates in their projects. You're charging quite a lot and in no way I am going to be part of this sham. You still have 8 days to go, you should reconsider your decision of printer and check with USPCC and LPCC."

If he had declared his intention of going with NPCC as printer from the start, he won't have got this kind of support. He mentioned to be following up with Legends & USPCC when he launched this project, and only now he declared his intention of going with Noir Arts or NPCC. I consider it simply as a breach of trust, and he has taken all his backers for a ride.

For all new to playing card collection, NPCC is a 3rd grade printer with very low quality standards and they are one of the cheapest option available in terms of printing and shipping. This is the reason deck creators go to them as they see they will have a wider profit margin.

Other creators on Kickstarter have even offered free shipping while doing fulfillment through them. Fabien has charged quite high as compared to others which adds again to his profit margin because he has been in in that veil of ignorance since start.

He should either refund all backers some part of pledge amount or check with USPCC or Legends while getting shipping done through Gamblers Warehouse in US. This is one possible good outcome that I can think of.

Sorry for ranting, his update made me angry, very angry.

Unread post by **Bradius** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:05 pm

First, let me say I am NOT a cardist. So, I am not a good judge of quality and durable cards. However, as a collector, I really like the design. I have a few decks from NPCC and Noir Arts. I thought they both have done a good job on the tuck and cards. I can understand your position, but I am happy with the campaign and glad to back it with my money.

Spectre · Unread post by **Spectre** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:14 pm

I believe this campaign has become about creating the biggest profit margin possible for the creator. I did back this project early on as one of the Kings. Initially it was sold as being on both decks. It is my belief that the project grew larger than Fabien expected and had decided to create ways to get as much cash as possible. My biggest complaint is the last update, he changed the be a "King, Queen, Jack or Joker" pledges and opened the option to each deck in an effort to get more cash from backers and devalued the pledges of those that initially backed the project thinking we were going to be on both decks. I cried foul with him and in my case he agreed to keep me on both decks. I would have had zero problem with this if it was pitched in that manner from the start, but to change that mid campaign, I felt was wrong.
I do like the design and for me it keeps getting better as the updates come, but I did expect this to be printed on a quality printer as was said initially. USPCC or LPCC. Looks like I might have to once again start reconsidering my pledge. Let's see how he responds to my latest query.....

Website · Unread post by **PipChick** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:45 am

Changing the printer so late into the campaign and without any indication that it was even a possibility, also really irks me - It's not necessarily because I don't like NPCC (I have a few of NPCC decks and although they are not of the same high quality one can expect from USPCC or LPCC, they're not terrible either and I probably would've still backed even if had been stated from the get-go that the decks would be printed from NPCC)

But I myself am more or less irritated for that fact that I feel like the creator should have been more transparent in communicating any difficulties he was having, and expressed that he was even considering NPCC from the moment he started looking for printing alternatives - especially since about 24 hours earlier from the "printer change" update, he commented that the cards were in fact going to be printed with USPCC. This decision was not only unexpected and really shows his lack of experience, but also makes me question what other ill-informed, last-minute changes the creator will make as this project progresses. I'm not one for surprises and I too am unfortunately considering to drop my pledge but I'll hold tight for now and can only hope that there will be more upfront communication moving forward.

CupcakeBaron · Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:41 am

cardistroy wrote:As I don't see my comment on this post, I am retrying again and this time I am posting the comment I made on Kickstarter.

I just made a comment in his last update.

"NPCC...hmm....it is one of the worst printers out there. And, you got us all on here as you declared you were checking with USPCC & Legends when this campaign started.

Noir Arts or NPCC does fulfillment from Ukraine and they have offered very low shipping rates in their projects. You're charging quite a lot and in no way I am going to be part of this sham. You still have 8 days to go, you should reconsider your decision of printer and check with USPCC and LPCC."

If he had declared his intention of going with NPCC as printer from the start, he won't have got this kind of support. He mentioned to be following up with Legends & USPCC when he launched this project, and only now he declared his intention of going with Noir Arts or NPCC. I consider it simply as a breach of trust, and he has taken all his backers for a ride.

For all new to playing card collection, NPCC is a 3rd grade printer with very low quality standards and they are one of the cheapest option available in terms of printing and shipping. This is the reason deck creators go to them as they see they will have a wider profit margin.

Other creators on Kickstarter have even offered free shipping while doing fulfillment through them. Fabien has charged quite high as compared to others which adds again to his profit margin because he has been in in that veil of ignorance since start.

He should either refund all backers some part of pledge amount or check with USPCC or Legends while getting shipping done through Gamblers Warehouse in US. This is one possible good outcome that I can think of.

Sorry for ranting, his update made me angry, very angry.

Although I haven't pledged for this deck I've been keeping up with the kickstarter out of interest and I just saw his response to your comment. All I can say is yikes...

Mr Cup 6-time creator about 17 hours ago

"Cardistroy" as I do not know your name, I would have preferred to send me a direct message instead of leaving it here.

First of all for the quality, a lot of people advice me to work with them and seems very happy with the result. Yes, it is my first playing deck and I am waiting for a sample of them. For now on the communication has been very smooth and easy, compared to any other especially USPCC who tell me to contact them only when I have the money.

For the fulfillment, I said I will work with them for the printing, not for the fulfillment. At last not for USA order. For now, the idea is to have them printing, and a have them send part of decks to USA and order will be sent from there. Same for France order, I will ship them from here. So please do not comment on something you have not all the information. LAso shipping is not only the price of the "stamps" but all that is coming with it: envelops, protection, labels...

So your comment made me very angry too and please cancel your order if you are not happy with my choices. As we said in France "La critique est facile, l'art est difficile" than you can translate to "Criticism is easy, art is difficult."

Thanks.

CupcakeBaron · Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:47 am

It really irks me when creators get so obviously defensive over constructive criticism. I get that it can be hard to hear negative feedback but if you put your product out there for the world and ask people for their money to fund it you have to be prepared to hear things you won't like. I'm finding this Mr. Cup to be so unprofessional.

Website · Unread post by **PipChick** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:23 pm

CupcakeBaron wrote:It really irks me when creators get so obviously defensive over constructive criticism. I get that it can be hard to hear negative feedback but if you put your product out there for the world and ask people for their money to fund it you have to be prepared to hear things you won't like. I'm finding this Mr. Cup to be so unprofessional.

I agree; his response is not exactly my cup of tea either... there's really no need for him to be so bitter - and considering he's the creator, he should at least try to filter out his own emotions before he espresso negatively to backer comments and concerns.

Whenever I have a latte problems, I just try to go to my frappe place instead of brewing over it -- at least that's how I kettle down

CupcakeBaron · Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:27 pm

PipChick wrote:
CupcakeBaron wrote:It really irks me when creators get so obviously defensive over constructive criticism. I get that it can be hard to hear negative feedback but if you put your product out there for the world and ask people for their money to fund it you have to be prepared to hear things you won't like. I'm finding this Mr. Cup to be so unprofessional.
I agree; his response is not exactly my cup of tea either... there's really no need for him to be so bitter - and considering he's the creator, he should at least try to filter out his own emotions before he espresso negatively to backer comments and concerns.

Whenever I have a latte problems, I just try to go to my frappe place instead of brewing over it -- at least that's how I kettle down

Oh my god, I did not even realize you were doing cup puns until I got to espresso. Well played!

Räpylätassu · Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:43 pm

PipChick wrote:
CupcakeBaron wrote:It really irks me when creators get so obviously defensive over constructive criticism. I get that it can be hard to hear negative feedback but if you put your product out there for the world and ask people for their money to fund it you have to be prepared to hear things you won't like. I'm finding this Mr. Cup to be so unprofessional.
I agree; his response is not exactly my cup of tea either... there's really no need for him to be so bitter - and considering he's the creator, he should at least try to filter out his own emotions before he espresso negatively to backer comments and concerns.

Whenever I have a latte problems, I just try to go to my frappe place instead of brewing over it -- at least that's how I kettle down

Just change your name to PunChick already?

Website · Unread post by **PipChick** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:44 pm

CupcakeBaron wrote:
PipChick wrote:
CupcakeBaron wrote:It really irks me when creators get so obviously defensive over constructive criticism. I get that it can be hard to hear negative feedback but if you put your product out there for the world and ask people for their money to fund it you have to be prepared to hear things you won't like. I'm finding this Mr. Cup to be so unprofessional.
I agree; his response is not exactly my cup of tea either... there's really no need for him to be so bitter - and considering he's the creator, he should at least try to filter out his own emotions before he espresso negatively to backer comments and concerns.

Whenever I have a latte problems, I just try to go to my frappe place instead of brewing over it -- at least that's how I kettle down
Oh my god, I did not even realize you were doing cup puns until I got to espresso. Well played!

Thanks, that beans so much to me

Website · Unread post by **PipChick** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:49 pm

Räpylätassu wrote:Just change your name to PunChick already?

lol, you never know, it could happun

Website · Unread post by **PipChick** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:58 pm

but my comment wasn't necessarily all froth and no substance; I do really agree that how backer concerns were addressed was unbeancoming of the proper Mr. Cup

CupcakeBaron · Unread post by **CupcakeBaron** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:52 pm

On a side note, has he revealed the back design yet? I've yet to see it and I'm not sure I'd like to pledge for a deck when I haven't seen the back.

Unread post by **rousselle** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:12 pm

Cancelled my pledge. I love the design-work I've seen, but there are too many red flags that make me uneasy about this project. I sincerely hope it works out for the best for everybody, but I'll watch from the sidelines at this point.

theCapraAegagrus · Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:45 pm

I've cancelled my pledge for this.

Unread post by **guru** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:15 pm

cardistroy wrote:As I don't see my comment on this post, I am retrying again and this time I am posting the comment I made on Kickstarter.

I just made a comment in his last update.

"NPCC...hmm....it is one of the worst printers out there. And, you got us all on here as you declared you were checking with USPCC & Legends when this campaign started.

Noir Arts or NPCC does fulfillment from Ukraine and they have offered very low shipping rates in their projects. You're charging quite a lot and in no way I am going to be part of this sham. You still have 8 days to go, you should reconsider your decision of printer and check with USPCC and LPCC."

If he had declared his intention of going with NPCC as printer from the start, he won't have got this kind of support. He mentioned to be following up with Legends & USPCC when he launched this project, and only now he declared his intention of going with Noir Arts or NPCC. I consider it simply as a breach of trust, and he has taken all his backers for a ride.

For all new to playing card collection, NPCC is a 3rd grade printer with very low quality standards and they are one of the cheapest option available in terms of printing and shipping. This is the reason deck creators go to them as they see they will have a wider profit margin.

Other creators on Kickstarter have even offered free shipping while doing fulfillment through them. Fabien has charged quite high as compared to others which adds again to his profit margin because he has been in in that veil of ignorance since start.

He should either refund all backers some part of pledge amount or check with USPCC or Legends while getting shipping done through Gamblers Warehouse in US. This is one possible good outcome that I can think of.

Sorry for ranting, his update made me angry, very angry.

Found this to be quite brutal to be honest...Don't think NPCC or anyone deserve it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but this is extreme.

On a separate note, I do wonder about certain things this backer mentioned here and through his other comments. Collectors are more open to support & back a deck on kickstarter even if a mention of USPCC is there on the page.