GROTESK MACABRE

[vasta41]

Per latest KS update:

Hi dear all,
A few days ago, after getting all the completed sheets in my hands I realized why I've been delaying so much, apart from the production issues of course. In fact I didn't want to send these decks. I'm not really pleased with the outcome.
From the beginning it didn’t go as planned. As you remember there was this silly 7 of Spades mistake, then it was the gold foil that was poorly stamped on some cards, then I discovered the same problem with some silver cards and eventually the multiple supplementary prints in various ways do not actually match the rest of the cards. This happens with both Black Mass and Black Gold editions.
The enormous cost of a possible reprint didn't let me accept the fact that instead of doing additional prints here and there, I had to draw a line and reprint the whole stuff.
You’ve been waiting for so long. The metallic inks are so impressive against the black stock but those flaws are holding the decks from being truly gorgeous. Some people have pledged (actually invested) big money, some others pledged just for 1 or 2 decks but all are expressing their anticipation to owning a deck they’ll be proud of. This is exactly what I'm determined to deliver, no matter what.
So, I took the painful decision to reprint everything from scratch.
The actual time needed to print all these decks is not more than 15 days from the moment I’ll go to the printer. After all these print runs, I have fixed every little issue and also I have concluded to how this should had been done from the beginning. This secures that we won’t have any major problems. Due to the cost of the reprint I have to offer some of the existing decks at a low price to anyone who wants to have a sample or who just wants to chip in. Details will be announced soon.
The new print will have a few small but distinct differences from the first –mainly a more intricate embellishment under the pips on the face cards- so that everything will be clear to all.

>>>>>List of issues on each edition in the current print<<<<<<
Below are the issues regarding only the Black Mass decks.For the black gold edition, I've posted an update in the Black Gold campaign here.
1) Black Mass edition: Both decks have a rather strong varnish smell. After a whole year, it's still there.
2) Black Mass Silver edition: No other problems, generally okay.

------------ INVERTED INFERNO -----------
To help funding the reprint I will also launch a 5-day KS on Friday May 5th with a very impressive version of the deck: INVERTED INFERNO. This deck will be printed on black stock, with red foil for the back and red/silver metallic ink for the faces. I will produce only as many decks as will be sold during the campaign.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that this announcement for the extra waiting may disappoint some but I really hope you understand that I cannot send decks which are not at the highest standard I can offer. More than anything, I’m asking for some more patience from your side so as I can work on this and get it done right this time. From the day I go to the printer, I’ll be posting daily updates in my fb page so you can track the progress. I’m sure that at the end, we all won’t regret it.
The obstacles that appeared made me hate this deck. Help me love it again!
Thank you,
Lotrek

P.S.:Some time ago I stopped logging in and answering to messages, as I really didn't know what to say. I'm sorry if this was frustrating for some people. It was for me, too.

[RichK]

Update on KS Macabre decks, not BLACK MASS decks:

Black Gold Edition: Generally okay but in many decks the supplementary cards have a different gloss and less deep air-pocket finish, too. Many decks are acceptable, though.

Black Silver Edition: The same problem with gloss and air-pocket depth, plus that many of the cards were apparently stamped with a different quality of foil, leaving a lot of silver powder on the fingers, while other cards don't:

Bronze Edition: The same silver powder issue as above.

INFERNO Edition: No issues in general, apart from the fact that the metallic gold ink is a bit dark and doesn't have the desired contrast against the red stock.This will be fixed with the use of a different tone gold and a "heavier" printing.

Same new KS INVERTED INFERNO project info to get some, much needed I'm sure, cash to reprint 5 decks plus INVERTED. I hope for Lotrek's sake and sanity this will be the last printing of these.

[Lotrek]

L1550160 lo.JPG (374.66 KiB) Viewed 3721 times

[sms69x]

So Inferno Inverted is finished and ready to ship?

[Lotrek]

So Inferno Inverted is finished and ready to ship?

No, not at all. However, these are not renderings. They're real cards with red foil I did as a test. I'm going to the printer as soon as the campaign is over and I expect to have them ready in late May. This is the normal time needed for these decks to be produced. I had a horrible collaboration with a workshop that does indeed very good job but apparently not at this level. For example they were doing some sheets and then they were stopping for days to do other works! The new print will be executed by the workshop that did the Golden Oath decks -they're excellent both in result and communication.

[Lotrek]

Yes, Victor I know. I haven't finished the previous!

[pablo19]

I think I will have the full collection of Grotesk macabre... how should I display all of these decks?

[shaitani]

That red foil on black tuck is looking quite good. And looks like you've got a strong start with about 30 backers and $2700 in 10 minutes.

[Lotrek]

That red foil on black tuck is looking quite good.

Thank you shaitani!
The tuck will be much much better in real life. For some reason the red against black gets blurry when I upload it, while it's sharp when I work it. I guess it's the file type? I upload Jpeg files.
Anyone familiar with that issue?

[pablo19]

While I realize that this may go against gathering a lot of money for a reprint, it would have been reasonable, in my opinion, to allocate early bird prices to backers who have been waiting for months on end for the rest of the series to arrive.
I think it was also discussed for the black mass, that since decks would be shipped together with black gold we would get the shipping refunded that we paid for twice. This should also be the case for these decks.
As for this deck, for me if falls short of the original Inferno version and I do feel like I am mostly getting it to complete the series, because, quite frankly, it's just another recolour...
Did not mean to sound harsh, but I did feel like being open about my thoughts on this one now.

P.S: Daily fb updates from the time you go to the printer, is that meant for the inverted inferno decks or all others? and... when will you go to the printer?

[Lotrek]

The daily updates will be on all editions, not only Inverted Inferno. I'm going to the printer next Monday, after the end of the campaign when I'll know the exact number of decks I'll have to print.
As for the shipping costs, this is really messy now. I'm up to something that will satisfy all of you

Recolor? We're getting very close to stretch goal #2. Wait and see.

[RichK]

Nice update Lotrek. If you didn't make such incredible, boundary pushing decks you might not see such support. Much success on the hopefully the final time you print the 6 BLACK ... decks!

[Cardians]

I'm finding it a bit odd that Lotrek needs to run another short-campaign to help support delivery of previous out-standing decks that he's already recouped on.

Second, I also find it odd that Mike Ratledge is the verified owner to Half Moon Productions simply to keep funds in the US currency instead of the Greece currency in-which Lotrek is from and producing the decks.

Lastly, why is this deck for $40 when Grostek Black gold was $47 and the add-on price for a Inferno was $60? At this price point (which is greatly profitable to Lotrek) it seems to me that the plates are already produced from his previous campaign and will be used for the "inverted inferno" deck. Same design, same tuck. If am wrong here, please explain. I know Lotrek just released an update stating the AoS will be foiled on both sides, yippy!

[RichK]

I'm finding it a bit odd that Lotrek needs to run another short-campaign to help support delivery of previous out-standing decks that he's already recouped on.

Second, I also find it odd that Mike Ratledge is the verified owner to Half Moon Productions simply to keep funds in the US currency instead of the Greece currency in-which Lotrek is from and producing the decks.

Lastly, why is this deck for $40 when Grostek Black gold was $47 and the add-on price for a Inferno was $60? At this price point (which is greatly profitable to Lotrek) it seems to me that the plates are already produced from his previous campaign and will be used for the "inverted inferno" deck. Same design, same tuck. If am wrong here, please explain. I know Lotrek just released an update stating the AoS will be foiled on both sides, yippy!

This isn't to help ship out-standing decks but to reprint them all, 6 decks. BLACK MASS Silver + Gold, GROTESK MACABRE Gold, Silver, Inferno, and Bronze. Add to the printing of INVERTED INFERNO that's 7 decks which he doesn't have the money to do due to the many reprints of each deck because of errors, not all of his fault. He'll be, I'm sure, putting every penny into getting the decks printed.

I'm guessing Mike is involved so there might be a better exchange rate in currency. Plus, it's easier to see pledge amounts in US dollars since a good percentage of backers are in US.

Yes the plates are done but the tuck will have a velvet like interior, not foil. You can see it as price gouging but think of it as getting your other decks finally printed. People have faith in Lotrek to keep pushing the edge, look at his OATH all foil deck, it's beyond words. At the time BLACK MASS was cutting edge and INFERNO another one of a kind deck. I'm sure he has to make sure the plates are in excellent condition for so many decks and personally oversee each step of which there are at least a possible 12. I asked him in a PM how many steps and he said 12 vendors. Trying to keep them all accountable for their work must be a nightmare yet he will do it this time so one doesn't do something without him there as quality control.

Yes I sound like a Lotrek apologist but he wants this disaster done with. 166 other people don't have a problem with a $40 limited number deck made by him because they, and I, know it will be more than worth it.

I hope Lotrek will give you better answers than I did if I got anything wrong.

[Lotrek]

@ Cardians: Being from Greece, I cannot run a kickstarter as it's available to certain countries only. I cannot really understand why is it so important who's the verified owner of the account.

As Rich said, I need funds to reprint ALL editions, not just to send stuff I have.

The plates will be made again. Printing plates will be slightly different and are anyway scrapped after the print as they get oxidized.
Foiling plates will be done again too, as they've been used a lot for the supplementary prints and are a bit worn out. But most importantly, I'm using a different workshop with a different foiling press and they need different plates anyway.

[Bruno]

Above, you will learn how to spell chihuahua.
Not a hound of great and ironic proportions, nor one of satire either ....
Simply a snipey snapping little nipping attention seek from something that knows not what solid effort and absolute sincerity will produce, ever.
Says more about its own fake and fraudulent persona than that which it infers of its peers.
Sincerity is not its strong suit.

[4.of.Clubs]

Gonna be the devil's advocate here. What happens if the new inferno deck also run into issues?

[vasta41]

Gonna be the devil's advocate here. What happens if the new inferno deck also run into issues?

Then, sorry to say, it will be on par with the rest of Lotrek's projects. But you will eventually get it and it will blow your mind when you do!

[RichK]

The plates will be made again. Printing plates will be slightly different and are anyway scrapped after the print as they get oxidized.
Foiling plates will be done again too, as they've been used a lot for the supplementary prints and are a bit worn out. But most importantly, I'm using a different workshop with a different foiling press and they need different plates anyway.

Sell the plates! I'd hate to think of shipping costs but think of a Lotrek collector's dream buy. Unless you can recycle them there for decent money.

Thanks for adding to my answer to @Cardigans.

[pablo19]

ANOTHER DECK!?!?!? Sorry Lotrek, I can't get excited about this anymore. I wanted to have a complete set of the series, but its become too many decks and overall very expensive. I have to rethink this...

[sms69x]

ANOTHER DECK!?!?!? Sorry Lotrek, I can't get excited about this anymore. I wanted to have a complete set of the series, but its become too many decks and overall very expensive. I have to rethink this...

Unfortunatelly I have to agree. This is becaming completetly insane. This is just a version after another with the trial and test editions in the middle... I guess this is a nice business model for you... but it certenly isn't for your costumers...
Also the prices for the TEST edition, the values asked, are far from being low... For decks that you were unwilling to send to people because they were not up to the quality you want, asking $15 (black mass) and $25 (black mass gold/silver and inferno) is a big stretch.. But I wish all the luck in selling them, unfortunately I wont be one of the people who will buy them... I was expectiing a price between $10 - $15 but at the price range asked is way out of my budget right now...

[vasta41]

ANOTHER DECK!?!?!? Sorry Lotrek, I can't get excited about this anymore. I wanted to have a complete set of the series, but its become too many decks and overall very expensive. I have to rethink this...

Unfortunatelly I have to agree. This is becaming completetly insane. This is just a version after another with the trial and test editions in the middle... I guess this is a nice business model for you... but it certenly isn't for your costumers...
Also the prices for the TEST edition, the values asked, are far from being low... For decks that you were unwilling to send to people because they were not up to the quality you want, asking $15 (black mass) and $25 (black mass gold/silver and inferno) is a big stretch.. But I wish all the luck in selling them, unfortunately I wont be one of the people who will buy them... I was expectiing a price between $10 - $15 but at the price range asked is way out of my budget right now...

I'm lucky enough not to have Pokemon syndrome with Lotrek's decks. Hell, even if I did want to catch them all I couldn't afford it. But that attitude allows me the luxury to pick and chose between all his different "versions" and buy the one I want. I don't fault Lotrek for selling all his "mistake" or "trial" versions because I can only imagine how expensive his line of work is. So if he has an audience (which he clearly does) then why not try to offset some of his costs? Again, it's easy for me to say this because I'm not obsessed with every one of his decks. But I appreciate the fact that he always does what he can to deliver in the end.

[pablo19]

I'm lucky enough not to have Pokemon syndrome with Lotrek's decks. Hell, even if I did want to catch them all I couldn't afford it. But that attitude allows me the luxury to pick and chose between all his different "versions" and buy the one I want. I don't fault Lotrek for selling all his "mistake" or "trial" versions because I can only imagine how expensive his line of work is. So if he has an audience (which he clearly does) then why not try to offset some of his costs? Again, it's easy for me to say this because I'm not obsessed with every one of his decks. But I appreciate the fact that he always does what he can to deliver in the end.

Let's call it Lotrekmon syndrome.
But all kidding aside all the limited edition claims would have needed a disclaimer of "+50 cheaper trial decks of each that may become available later", of course Lotrek did not know he would have to add this at the time, but he is putting out a cheaper version of a very similar deck at a drastically lower price point after you've shelled out a premium for the immaculate version that you have to wait a lot longer for.
He clearly has an audience, and we are part of it that is why it's important to make our concerns heard. (I find this argument quite weak when people use it for Jackson Robinson as well, the fact that the man has an audience does not mean he should neglect listening any part of it. That is the way to gradually keep losing the most vocal and loyal fans of your stuff who are usually the ones that try to make themselves heard as well).

"the luxury to pick and chose between all his different "versions" and buy the one I want"
How exactly does this apply to Lotreks work? Say you liked Black mass and you backed for a deck, then comes along Black gold and you have to refund black mass to get black gold, and then the inferno inverted edition comes along, same story. And once you've gone through all decks in a timeline you realize the one you really wanted was the bronze edition which is sold out.

Final thoughts:
- I think Lotrek has often gotten away with delays because he has made up for them with some extras, not just a promise that the finished deck will be perfect; a perfect deck is what we backed for it is not an extra.
-I think we would all benefit from knowing how many different editions of a deck will come out, so we have more of a "luxury to pick and chose". Especially when cheaper alternatives will come around (I find this should have also been made clear by Mike in the Dondorf set).
-I just want to get the Hyeronimus deck... please stop with the Grotesk macabre series

[Lotrek]

Okay, a quick reply to the latest questions and remarks.

First, the "test" decks I'm offering are selected so as to be fine, without major issues. Among the about 260 decks from each edition, there are certainly 50 that are good. Especially Inferno is fine.
I'm offering them at half the original price despite the fact that they're so few. There are people who WANT to have these versions, too. Collectors are crazy, you know!
Besides, after looking at the first print for ages, I'm making some changes to the design, further improving it. Like as if I had printed the most expensive proofs ever! So the "test" decks are there for the sake of history of this edition.

As for the number of decks that are released, I wish I knew from the beginning. My mind is always spinning around new ideas, I really can't help it and some of my ideas have come after seeing misprints in my printer's! You can find gems in the garbage if you know how to look at them.

@Pablo: Macabre is over. Hieronymus is on its way. I've been craving to finish my pending stuff to devote myself to Hieronymus...

[Cbkimble]

I would really like a set of these but I just can't justify it at the moment.

[chach]

I would really like a set of these but I just can't justify it at the moment.

+1 to this. I've purchased at least one of everything Lotrek has released thus far but this is the first time I'm bowing out. Lack of discretionary funds as well as the multitude of items I'm still waiting on (just wish I could remember everything I've yet to receive. Believe there's even an uncut sheet or two) is making me hesitant to pull the trigger. Sorry, Lotrek.

Plus I'd rather save my money for the signature edition.

[Bruno]

Had to have a Crimson Flaming Infernal Test Deck.
For me it will stand as a burning reminder of the effort extended in overcoming the prolonged production saga of this series.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Thanks.

[Lotrek]

Guys, I agree with you. These decks are just a sample of what didn't make it and why it was rejected. Also a proof that these decks were actually produced as the "official" decks will have some differences. There were people asking me to make them available, so I did. I don't see them as a part of the series.

Also, from the comments so far I have to take into account that you want to make some kind of programming, so you want to know how many versions of the decks I'm doing will be available. Although my creativity is galloping, for my next projects I'll try to determine from the beginning the number of editions and stick to this.

The Signature edition of the series was conceived a few days before the launch and has such features that only with this deck could become effective. It will be such a crazy thing that it would be pity to leave it for who knows when.

I can tell you from now that my Hieronymus deck which will be printed by one of the 3 major printing companies will have only 2 editions and no signature or any other fancy variation. The theme is so rich by itself that it doesn't need anything more.

[pablo19]

Guys, I agree with you. These decks are just a sample of what didn't make it and why it was rejected. Also a proof that these decks were actually produced as the "official" decks will have some differences. There were people asking me to make them available, so I did. I don't see them as a part of the series.

Also, from the comments so far I have to take into account that you want to make some kind of programming, so you want to know how many versions of the decks I'm doing will be available. Although my creativity is galloping, for my next projects I'll try to determine from the beginning the number of editions and stick to this.

The Signature edition of the series was conceived a few days before the launch and has such features that only with this deck could become effective. It will be such a crazy thing that it would be pity to leave it for who knows when.

I can tell you from now that my Hieronymus deck which will be printed by one of the 3 major printing companies will have only 2 editions and no signature or any other fancy variation. The theme is so rich by itself that it doesn't need anything more.

Don't swing the pendulum back too hard, there is a middle ground of some standard decks and a couple of limited ones with extra features. I think you got the formula right back when you were doing Venexiana and Icons. I just feel like the number of limited editions of macrabre got a tad out of hand, this may just have been the expection.

You mention the signature edition will be available (I'm going all in on this series ) in the last 24h of the KS campaign, could you comment on how we will pledge for it? will it be through pm or new pledge tiers?

And... I can't believe I'm saying this after everything I've commented on the Macabre series... but Hyeronimus deserves some sort of special edition, at least one. I've just seen an owl in a berry and the jack of hearts but I know that deck will definitely be my favourite ever.

[Bikefanatic]

We all will still get the original version of the Grotesk Macabre Black (Gold & Silver), Black Mass (Gold & Silver) and Inferno decks once they are completed correctly. So what he's offering now is the imperfect, damaged, test runs of those decks.

This is the list of Official decks:
+(2)Black Mass Gold & Silver (part of 1st KS project)
+(2)Grotesk Macabre Black Gold & Silver (2nd KS project)
+(1)Grotesk Inferno (available during Grotesk Macabre Black G&S project)
+(1)Grotesk Bronze (which some may have forgot)
+(1)Grotesk Inverted Inferno (the current KS project with the Signature deck available soon)

Test Runs (imperfect decks)
-(2)Grotesk Black (G&S)
-(2)Black Mass (G&S)
-(1)Grotesk Inferno


So as of now, 7 real official decks and 5 decks that are not. Signature Inferno should be the 8th official deck.