Dondorf Hundertjahrkarte restoration, uncut sheets available

[pablo19]

1933
9,2x6cm
Tax stamp: Weimar Republic
Cardback: young knight in front of Wartburg
2x54 cards, Bridge rule-book and booklet
Inv.- 1980-213

Further text from the booklet:

"A German playing card set we call the cards, that we give to our friends to celebrate and remember the one hundred year anniversary of the foundation of our house. A German set - not only because of its provenance, but also from its art and craftmanship" [...] "The artist, who has crafted it, is in possesion of all late artistic maturity, that manual work ability, sophisticated taste and a full imagination that lead to this conclusion; he has his eye wide open for the beauty of German art and the most vivid feeling for the idealism of our German past. With this, he was able to achieve in the cards presented to show figures of cards that embody the strengths and strivings of the German being: In kings, resting on churches and armies, the founders and fosterers of the Reich, the promoters and protectors of commerce and manufacture, navigation and agriculture, the guardians of our German way from sublime seriousness to lively happiness. In the Dames [queens] the sublime women and their known force of love, the customs of the home, the protection over the works of faith and compassion and the beautiful arts. In the boys [jacks] the knighthood, the happiness that comes from hunting, the poetry and study. He had, after all adorned the back of the cards with a picture of the Wartburg and anchored the theme of this set in the heart of German landscapes; there, where more than once the German being was elevated to the peaks, whether we think of saint Elisabeth or Martin Luther, Walther von der Vogelweide and Wolfram von Exchenbach or the artwork of Richard Wagner. To spread through our installations such a piece gives us great joy; but, we should with this not forget those who through their talent and work have put in place the many facets of German art, to reproduce in such a comple fashion the soft beauty of artistic invention. And so it concludes: In every sense a testament to the German way and German art"

I'm not sure whether this is the complete text. If anyone wants to improve the translation I could send pictures of the text in German (not sure whether I can post it here?)

Other notes from Hoffmann and Dietrich:

-Unlike previous decks where the courts show a multitude of emotions, these courts are to show heroic strength such as in the statue of Uta in the cathedral of Naumburg and the horsemann of bamberg, which were seen as related to the Medieval epoch.

-Since Dondorf had already been sold to Flemming & Wiskott in 1929 some authors presume that the sketches for these cards had alread been finished by 1929. Though this claim is disputed by HD. Rather, the move of playing card production of Flemming nad Wiskott to Frankfurt in 1932 is likely to be when this set was planned for.

-The booklet makes clear that the cards where not put out on the month of the anniversary (April) but rather in the second half of the year 1933.

-Friedrich Bell, who ran ASS at the time seems to remember having been given sketches from 1929 (when Dondorf was still under Otto Dondorf (nephew of Bernhard J. Dondorf), and that it was only the back of the cards that was illustrated in 1933.

[Mike Ratledge]

Mike,

Dumb question since I'm in for a set but why do the originals and restoration cards have such incredible portrait like painting but then it looks like they used MS Paint to do the pips and other things? Look at the QoS, incredible art but the Spade looks so different and "cartoon-ish". I'd think they would have wanted them just as artistic.

Thanks for any info you might know. Am still looking forward to this and many more you/Lotrek do!

It does look like the font used and artistic talent was concentrated on the court cards, but we are going for a restoration that is true to the OG decks with very little change. I suppose that it would be nice to have a little more elaborate pip cards, but it wouldn't be true to the first edition.

[RichK]

Mike,

Dumb question since I'm in for a set but why do the originals and restoration cards have such incredible portrait like painting but then it looks like they used MS Paint to do the pips and other things? Look at the QoS, incredible art but the Spade looks so different and "cartoon-ish". I'd think they would have wanted them just as artistic.

Thanks for any info you might know. Am still looking forward to this and many more you/Lotrek do!

It does look like the font used and artistic talent was concentrated on the court cards, but we are going for a restoration that is true to the OG decks with very little change. I suppose that it would be nice to have a little more elaborate pip cards, but it wouldn't be true to the first edition.

Thanks Mike for the info. Seems odd to me that they'd not go for more elaborate pip but maybe it was too hard to add another 2 artistic layers.

[Lotrek]

Mike,

Dumb question since I'm in for a set but why do the originals and restoration cards have such incredible portrait like painting but then it looks like they used MS Paint to do the pips and other things? Look at the QoS, incredible art but the Spade looks so different and "cartoon-ish". I'd think they would have wanted them just as artistic.

Thanks for any info you might know. Am still looking forward to this and many more you/Lotrek do!

It does look like the font used and artistic talent was concentrated on the court cards, but we are going for a restoration that is true to the OG decks with very little change. I suppose that it would be nice to have a little more elaborate pip cards, but it wouldn't be true to the first edition.

Thanks Mike for the info. Seems odd to me that they'd not go for more elaborate pip but maybe it was too hard to add another 2 artistic layers.

The originals have very plain pips, hand drawn. This means that they're not perfectly symmetrical nor are they very sharp edged. The technology of the time used to print this deck wouldn't allow it anyway, even if they wanted it. Inspecting the very hi-res scans, I came to the conclusion that what they wanted was a clean-cut shape for the pips as opposed to the detailed freehand painting style for the courts. They came as close as they could to this but we didn't see any point in trying to mimick the imperfections of the era's technology.

[RichK]

Mike,

Dumb question since I'm in for a set but why do the originals and restoration cards have such incredible portrait like painting but then it looks like they used MS Paint to do the pips and other things? Look at the QoS, incredible art but the Spade looks so different and "cartoon-ish". I'd think they would have wanted them just as artistic.

Thanks for any info you might know. Am still looking forward to this and many more you/Lotrek do!

It does look like the font used and artistic talent was concentrated on the court cards, but we are going for a restoration that is true to the OG decks with very little change. I suppose that it would be nice to have a little more elaborate pip cards, but it wouldn't be true to the first edition.

Thanks Mike for the info. Seems odd to me that they'd not go for more elaborate pip but maybe it was too hard to add another 2 artistic layers.

The originals have very plain pips, hand drawn. This means that they're not perfectly symmetrical nor are they very sharp edged. The technology of the time used to print this deck wouldn't allow it anyway, even if they wanted it. Inspecting the very hi-res scans, I came to the conclusion that what they wanted was a clean-cut shape for the pips as opposed to the detailed freehand painting style for the courts. They came as close as they could to this but we didn't see any point in trying to mimick the imperfections of the era's technology.

Thanks for the info!

[Mike Ratledge]

Pablo, I just realized that the book you have is the same one I have "Die Dondorf'schen Luxus-Spielkaten" by Detlef Hoffman & Margot Dietrich. My copy is hand signed dedicated by Detlef Hoffman to the German Playing Card Museum, I believe. I will snap a pix of the signing. It looks like "Hr/Mr Charles Peter Fitzpatrick"? (dated 30-August-1984) I'm not sure but guessing that second line says something about him being a visitor to the museum?

The paragraph you translated goes on to say that ASS reproduced it in 1975, but only in 9 color offset printing, as opposed to the original 28 "stone" (plate) chromolithography.

Interesting commentary. I can barely read Danish, so Deutsche isn't happening, but I can use Google Translate picture method to Anglicize it about 1/4 page at a time.

As Lotrek points out, chromolithography involveds etching things into stone, likely limestone - (in mirror image) and doesn't allow for terribly precise corners, etc. These restoration cards will actually be what they intended, with precise edges and bright colors which using modern CMYK methods are basically unlimited.

[pablo19]

Pablo, I just realized that the book you have is the same one I have "Die Dondorf'schen Luxus-Spielkaten" by Detlef Hoffman & Margot Dietrich. My copy is hand signed dedicated by Detlef Hoffman to the German Playing Card Museum, I believe. I will snap a pix of the signing. It looks like "Hr/Mr Charles Peter Fitzpatrick"? (dated 30-August-1984) I'm not sure but guessing that second line says something about him being a visitor to the museum?

The paragraph you translated goes on to say that ASS reproduced it in 1975, but only in 9 color offset printing, as opposed to the original 28 "stone" (plate) chromolithography.

Interesting commentary. I can barely read Danish, so Deutsche isn't happening, but I can use Google Translate picture method to Anglicize it about 1/4 page at a time.

2017-04-15 20.46.39.jpg

As Lotrek points out, chromolithography involveds etching things into stone, likely limestone - (in mirror image) and doesn't allow for terribly precise corners, etc. These restoration cards will actually be what they intended, with precise edges and bright colors which using modern CMYK methods are basically unlimited.

Yes, that's the same book! It's made out to Mr. Fitzapatrick on the occasion of his visit to the German Playing card museum. I believe these books were made for a special exhibition of Dondorf cards at the German Playing card Museum.

I wonder if chromolithography is something Lotrek would try out, from the most modern foiling techniques of playing card manufacturing too its roots in limestone.

I'm not sure if this applies or if I'm getting this right, but one advantage of Chromolithography as opposed to offset (maybe also CMYK) printing is that the colour fills the space. For example, Lotreks' Icons Sacred edition shows these colored dots from printing ( see https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/cmyk-do ... 642924.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) , which are not noticeable at arms length but if you look a bit closer you can clearly see them. On the other hand, if you used something like chromolithography (or any other type of print where you roll paint onto a carved out surface and then press it on paper you would not find these "dots" even if you looked really closely.

[Mike Ratledge]

Interesting. Chromolithography results at best might be something like the letterpress deck that Lorenzo is / has done. I don't think that using discrete carved stones for every single color is do-able, if even practical these days, you likely would have to reconstruct the tools to do it, I guess.

Curious that you can see dots with his work, it's done with plates like anything except digital presses that MPC (and other small run printers) use, those are typically HP "Indigo" or Kodachrrome presses. Ink placed by plates should cover the area, just like it did using limestone with chromolithographic technology.

Modern presses like French made Webpress (large USPCC runs) and Heidelberg German made presses (basically everyone else) have five or six up to eight print stations and one sealing station. That allows CMYK +up to four more inks, typically Pantone or metallic ink colors that give us the vibrant and diverse colors and metallics we are used to getting these days. One thing for certain, even if it is doable, it would take an army of people to carve 28 stones, for example.

[Mike Ratledge]

Prototype decks arrived today, and show exactly where we are going, but I can't promise these borderless (back & faces). We will push it as far as possible, given that we are printing 250 pairs. I got a little too close on these, there should be no indices touching the corners. The backs are indeed edge to edge covered.

As I noted, pushing for a "framed" presentation on the prototype decks. Nobody can get this close with analog equipment, but this shows that latest contemporary methods of flashing copper-aluminum alloy foil don't burn the ink. Previously you could not print too closely to the borders or the gilding flash would melt the ink too close to the edges. These frankly look unreal, but they are exactly what you see - edge to edge faces and backs with gilded sides.

[Azid]

My copy is hand signed dedicated by Detlef Hoffman to the German Playing Card Museum, I believe. I will snap a pix of the signing. It looks like "Hr/Mr Charles Peter Fitzpatrick"? (dated 30-August-1984) I'm not sure but guessing that second line says something about him being a visitor to the museum?

You are right,

"Mr. Charles Peter Fitzpatrick on the occasion of a visit in the german playing card museum.
30.8.1984
Detlef Hoffman "

[Mike Ratledge]

Don't forget to pledge for.your deck set at the special discounted UC member rate during the pre-order now on UCdecksales.com until Friday evening.

UC member Pre-Order rate ($25 discount)

Around midnight, the balance remaining there will be transferred to the Kickstarter campaign, which launches at 2PM Eastern on Saturday for probably 18 days.

We suspect that a short campaign will be all we need. After all, we already have pre-orders from UC backers for more than 30 sets.

[pablo19]

That prototype deck looks pretty amazing I have to say, way to go!

[Mike Ratledge]

Things are starting to be put together for the KS launch Saturday. Please take a moment to look at the preview and let me know if you have any questions or concerns or obvious problems.

Wbat you can't see: 18 days duration - across three weekends.

> > > Kickstarter campaign preview < < <

[Mike Ratledge]

Reminder: the members pre-order ends in just under 24 hours, 7PM tomorrow (Friday) in preparation for the KS launch Saturday afternoon at 2PM Eastern / NYC time.

A big thank you to everyone who has already marked their place in line. We have a few things to announce, including the hope that we can get these done quicker than I expected, and the future of our efforts to relive playing cards history. Cartes Indiennes appear to be next in line, but I have not finished negotiating with the B P Grimaud successors - yet.

Maybe tomorrow? I hope so!

Just a side note for true vintage & antique collectors: the next Potter & Potter auction digital catalog has been posted on their website. Lots of truly rare and unusual decks and a very good lesson in the history of cards, even for those of you who don't fancy older decks.

This should work Auction Catalog (PDF)

[Bruno]

Up and Running ....

Congratulations to Chromografix' inaugural restoration ....

What a Beauty !

[Justin O.]

Crap, missed the preorder, in on the KS though! Such an amazing deck

[Mike Ratledge]

Up and Running ....

Congratulations to Chromografix' inaugural restoration ....

What a Beauty !

Yes we are: (about $1000 per hour so far)

[RichK]

Since I pre-ordered I can't comment on the KS page so congratulations on funding, so quickly too, Mike and Lotrek! I thought people might be leery of the price but seeing the original next to the restoration pictures really shows the workmanship put into the decks to be as close as possible. Well done!

[Mike Ratledge]

Rich, it's no secret that they had to cut corners during the 1933 press run, thus 2017 version is likely to be more precise and direct to the original specs. It's a tough job to coordinate 28 stones - in their case, actually 28 limestone blocks. We'll see, but what I have already observed is that the color saturation is corrected, and done quite well. Beautiful blues and greens unavailable back in the early 30's are presented.

[pstaehlin]

I'm really debating on if I should spend money on this project. Do any of you feel it's well worth the investment? Over time because this is a restoration will it grow in value?I ? Help me out guys. Sell me on this?

[pablo19]

Your alternative to getting this restoration deck from KS is this. I'm sure that, as far as restorations go, this will be one of the big ones.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Old-rare-Dondorf ... :g:9ScAAOS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
wEzxYVs1T" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
come to think of it, the second photo on eBay looks EXACTLY like the one of the photos on the KS page....

[MagikFingerz]

I'm really debating on if I should spend money on this project. Do any of you feel it's well worth the investment? Over time because this is a restoration will it grow in valve?? Help me out guys. Sell me on this?

If your only concern is about how good the investment is, then I wouldn't bother. There are plenty of other better (more effective/less risky) ways of investing your money.

Buy decks that you want to keep, and you'll never regret a purchase again. Resale value is always a gamble, and if you're not willing/prepared to lose the money you "invest", then you shouldn't make the purchase.

[pstaehlin]

Your alternative to getting this restoration deck from KS is this. I'm sure that, as far as restorations go, this will be one of the big ones.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Old-rare-Dondorf ... :g:9ScAAOS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
wEzxYVs1T" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
come to think of it, the second photo on eBay looks EXACTLY like the one of the photos on the KS page....

I've seen this already. That's really something. $2500! See, if only we knew that in the many years to come this restoration deck will be worth that much. Thank you.

[pstaehlin]

I'm really debating on if I should spend money on this project. Do any of you feel it's well worth the investment? Over time because this is a restoration will it grow in valve?? Help me out guys. Sell me on this?

If your only concern is about how good the investment is, then I wouldn't bother. There are plenty of other better (more effective/less risky) ways of investing your money.

Buy decks that you want to keep, and you'll never regret a purchase again. Resale value is always a gamble, and if you're not willing/prepared to lose the money you "invest", then you shouldn't make the purchase.

Very well said. And thank you. This would for sure be one of the most amazing decks in my collection and I can't imagine it wouldn't grow in valve over time. Regardless though of resale value, it would be a wonderful addition to own. Thank you for your comment.

[Mike Ratledge]

I'm really debating on if I should spend money on this project. Do any of you feel it's well worth the investment? Over time because this is a restoration will it grow in value?I ? Help me out guys. Sell me on this?

I can't wait to see what others think, but you really do have to think that as few of these as we can make (250 sets total), they won't immediately go up as far as open market price (ebay.com, etc).

The one truly difficult part of this specific restoration is that we can only make 250 copies. I feel certain that the market is larger, but constrained by the very limited number to work with. At least two people hope I am right: they got 5-pack sets on KS. If anyone wants to go that much, let me know. We're down to about 88 sets.

I feel sure that if we had been able to offer 500 sets at $60 it would be more than doubled with backers. I can't argue that it's not expensive, but we did everything we could to keep it as reasonable as possible.

[Mike Ratledge]

Your alternative to getting this restoration deck from KS is this. I'm sure that, as far as restorations go, this will be one of the big ones.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Old-rare-Dondorf ... :g:9ScAAOS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
wEzxYVs1T" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
come to think of it, the second photo on eBay looks EXACTLY like the one of the photos on the KS page....

The person (in Tucson) swapped pix with me last year looking for a buyer. At that time they wanted $4000 for the set, and I really don't know anyone who is looking to drop that much for the pair of decks. It's "down" to around $2500 last I looked?

[Lotrek]

What MagikFingerz said. There are decks you buy to resell and decks you buy to keep. Nobody can guarantee that the price will double in 2 days. But I can guarantee that if you like the look of this deck, you may never actually want to resell it.

[Mike Ratledge]

By the way, someone who pre-ordered asked if they could get Kickstarter updates.

I don't see any easy way for me to do that, but you can always pledge $1

[Lotrek]

Our aim is to produce a deck that will make backers say: "Nah, who needs the original now?"

[Mike Ratledge]

Our aim is to produce a deck that will make backers say: "Nah, who needs the original now?"

In many ways the deck is better and more true to the original intent than even first edition 1933 decks. The process was a bear, literally 28 limestone tablets carved and were used like modern day plates just to print them.