Faction Playing Cards, a deck design

[Gwafio]

Hey everybody, I've been developing a design for a deck of cards and could use some feedback...

The deck is called Faction and the basic premise is 4 feudal families represented by the four common suits. Each family has a strength: Might, Zeal, Acumen, and Bravery. The four families carry weapons/objects that relate to their strength and the lines and shapes composing their bodies are related. I've got jacks and queens pretty well developed at this point along with pips and a good mock-up for the back design.

I'm teetering on the fence between taking this design to kickstarter in an attempt to get it produced by EPC or LPCC or just spending a hundred bucks for a few decks just for me from MPC. I love the idea of getting my deck funded, but that would mean the design has to be intriguing for people and I need some feedback before I go through the huge effort of running a kickstarter campaign. So please let me know what you think!

[jsantafe]

I think the glow doesn't suit the theme at all and I'm not sure if the jacks are different enough between suits to communicate the "family strength". Also, Sprouts will probably tell you about the suit indicator and that it should be further away from the index. I think that the suit and the card letter are nit really aligned.
The style is quite personal, so not bad, it just depends on your personal taste.
If the last pic is the tuck, work on that a bit.
Hope I'm not too harsh, good luck!

[sprouts1115]

I think the glow doesn't suit the theme at all and I'm not sure if the jacks are different enough between suits to communicate the "family strength". Also, Sprouts will probably tell you about the suit indicator and that it should be further away from the index. I think that the suit and the card letter are nit really aligned.
The style is quite personal, so not bad, it just depends on your personal taste.
If the last pic is the tuck, work on that a bit.
Hope I'm not too harsh, good luck!

With the suit indicator, It can be anywhere on the card. It doesn't matter how close it is. With the alignment, It's off a bit look at the AoH. The suit is slightly right of the rank of the card...

Gwafil - I would get a demo deck form the MPC. You might want to check if the shadow colors come up. Post an image. I would not put these on Kickstarter. It seems your JoC is missing some hands.

[Gwafio]

Thanks for your responses, totally not too harsh, I need real opinions. Yes, the alignment and Pip locations are very muich not complete. I was really thinking the suit indicator needed to move over, but had seen other decks with it so close so I went that direction. Good to know other people feel that way too. I'm in the process of re-working these based on alot of feedback from you and others that the families aren't differentiated enough. I'll keep working with it and post something more later. Thanks again!

[Levent Suberk]

Unique design, very good artwork. Perhaps it will be better without glow effect.

[Gwafio]

Here is the second round of development for my Faction deck. I've revised my courts quite a bit. Going with a more structured look, and giving the courts some more distinguishing features that might allude more to the individual strengths I'm focusing on. Any comments about the direction of this deck or the design? Thanks again.

[shermjack]

I think that the new courts are a big improvement! I like the art and am interested in seeing more

[sprouts1115]

He sure do likes skinny clubs.

[Gwafio]

Hey everybody, Its been a long while since I've posted (spent the summer and fall working on a house) but I was finally able to come back to this deck I've been developing. I've done a test print with MPC which made me go back to the drawing board in some places. Got a back design and a rough draft of the tuck case as well. I've added a highlight/silhouette on my pips which I think adds more visual interest to the fields while not taking too much away from the courts.

[shaitani]

I think it looks really good, and I like the direction it's in. As it is, I would definitely pick up one or two right now.
I think the weakest link might be the tuck, but I can't quite put my finger on why, so I can't provide constructive criticism about it. Possibly removing the thin white lines would improve it. Just my humble opinion.

[Gwafio]

Thanks, I'll have to re-visit the tuck, I've definitely got a simpler pattern based design than alot of the decks I've seen on here so I'm trying to keep things visually striking but I keep coming back to basic patterns and bold colors. The intent of this deck is first and foremost playability but with stronger delineations between families and suits than what you get with a standard deck of cards. Each family of courts has some basic lines that it is composed of and repeating patterns form the rest of them. They also have their own subtle suggestions to their strengths denoted by their weapons (among other items) and demeanor. So with the back and the tuck I'm aiming to keep the emphasis on patterns.

[shaitani]

Although I personally preferred the simpler card back design from before, I would just make one recommendation if you are going to make it more complex: make sure the back designs are also symmetric. The 4 I see in the post above are not. I mean, it's possible you just put these together as a concept, so you might already be aware, just making sure to let you know in case it slips through the cracks.

Btw, one more thing to consider, maybe take a look at the Vanda Duel deck and its kickstarter campaign, your deck is very reminiscent of that one. I personally really liked that deck, but it just barely made its kickstarter goal. Maybe you can send David Goldklang a message, not sure how busy he is, but if he could give you dos and donts, it would increase your chances of a successful campaign.

I hope some of this is useful, because I like your work here, and would love to see it come to fruition.

[RichK]

I liked the simpler back design. These new designs seem over complicated to me.

Nice pips too.

[TGunitedcardists]

I think the court cards are well done. The back design is OK. The tuck is OK. The jokers are not. The jokers are weak compared to the court cards. I suggest spending some extra time and have them like your court cards, in some way. And I go with a classic red joker and a black joker. Your color scheme you have for your jokers now are red and a mixture of red and black, mainly red.

I can imagine playing poker with my friends using this deck. Keep going!

[Gwafio]

I think the court cards are well done. The back design is OK. The tuck is OK. The jokers are not. The jokers are weak compared to the court cards. I suggest spending some extra time and have them like your court cards, in some way. And I go with a classic red joker and a black joker. Your color scheme you have for your jokers now are red and a mixture of red and black, mainly red.

Thanks TGunitedcardists, I appreciate the feedback, but I've already run a second prototype print and am almost completely done with major designing (since I still wasn't satisfied with the card back and hadn't tried my custom tuck yet). I've fiddled with the back just a bit, but I'm going to keep it close to the original back I posted, I'm really happy where it is right now, after tweaking the scale of it and making it a combination of red and blue tones.

The tuck has been reworked and now more closely resembles the back with what I feel is a better design to unify all the elements in the deck and to make a more eye-grabbing tuck in general, still tweaking it, but I'm generally confident it is headed in the right direction.

For the jokers, I'll admit I was kinda stumped from the start. I looked at a lot of decks during this design and one thing I liked about jokers was that they could be completely free of constraints that the rest of the deck has to follow to be playable. They generally aren't two-way symmetrical and often wouldn't even be in the same style as the rest of the deck. I like that since they are "wild" cards, they literally look wild compared to the proper deck cards.
All this to say; thanks but I'm gonna stick with a red and blue version of the current jokers, I hope that doesn't kill your interest, if you're playing poker you won't waste time with jokers anyway.

[Gwafio]

Oh ya, I changed the name too since another deck just emerged with the "factions" name, our decks are pretty different, but still it's lame to have the same name.

Another thing, I'm going to run this deck on kickstarter and I can either set a low goal and print with MPC or a higher goal that I'm not as sure I would hit and print with Legends or another one of the larger printers. I've been really satisfied with the quality of the prototypes I've gotten from MPC and just want to know if this community has anything to say about that. I own half a dozen custom decks mostly from USPCC, and I can see that there is a difference, but the better quality papers from MPC are still great IMO. Any thoughts on this topic in regards to my deck?

[flashcards]

At this stage in their development, I won't buy an MPC deck. I'm obviously in the minority since most MPC decks end up funding and a lot of people have no problem with them. However, I don't think you can go wrong with the "big three". They have the reputation for quality that is important to most buyers. If the design is good enough, having one as the printer can only add to the integrity of the project. If the design is right, the project will probably fund even at a higher goal, especially if you can keep the per deck price and shipping costs down. That's my take on things. Best of luck with your upcoming project.

[RichK]

The tuck needs real help. Usually the back design of the card is on the back of the tuck. The colored diamond pattern, while interesting, is too plain. You want a tuck that has an elegance or wow factor for collectors who don't open the deck.

I understand you changing the name but "Fanatics" doesn't go with the theme of the courts. No ideas are coming to mind but please give it some thought.

Please get quotes from the big 3 printers for a small, 1000, deck run. MPC is an instant turn off for some backers. Go big 3 to see how you fare. Ultimately the name, art, and quality will decide your success.

Sorry for the harsh opinions, take them as you will.

[TGunitedcardists]

I think the court cards are well done. The back design is OK. The tuck is OK. The jokers are not. The jokers are weak compared to the court cards. I suggest spending some extra time and have them like your court cards, in some way. And I go with a classic red joker and a black joker. Your color scheme you have for your jokers now are red and a mixture of red and black, mainly red.

Thanks TGunitedcardists, I appreciate the feedback, but I've already run a second prototype print and am almost completely done with major designing (since I still wasn't satisfied with the card back and hadn't tried my custom tuck yet). I've fiddled with the back just a bit, but I'm going to keep it close to the original back I posted, I'm really happy where it is right now, after tweaking the scale of it and making it a combination of red and blue tones.

The tuck has been reworked and now more closely resembles the back with what I feel is a better design to unify all the elements in the deck and to make a more eye-grabbing tuck in general, still tweaking it, but I'm generally confident it is headed in the right direction.

For the jokers, I'll admit I was kinda stumped from the start. I looked at a lot of decks during this design and one thing I liked about jokers was that they could be completely free of constraints that the rest of the deck has to follow to be playable. They generally aren't two-way symmetrical and often wouldn't even be in the same style as the rest of the deck. I like that since they are "wild" cards, they literally look wild compared to the proper deck cards.
All this to say; thanks but I'm gonna stick with a red and blue version of the current jokers, I hope that doesn't kill your interest, if you're playing poker you won't waste time with jokers anyway.

Reading your latest updates, unfortunately, your card artwork is there, other than the jokers , but the rest isn't. The tuck isn't good enough. MPC, to most people, isn't good enough. The back design is OK, and will swing people not to pledge. You've made 80% of the effort to have a shot at a successful Kickstarter project, but I think you need to buckle down on the last 20%. It seems like your started gangbusters but are losing steam near the end of the design process. It should take as long as it needs to take.

In my opinion, the new name doesn't work. For others, it might, but it's not a deal breaker for me. The above stuff is.

[Gwafio]

Ok gang,

You're holding my feet to the fire here. I appreciate it, so I'll take another swing.

I'm gonna hold out on the jokers (let me have my jokers ), Here is the beginnings of a new tuck that I think is headed in a productive direction. THIS IS NOT DONE, I just wanted to get something up here to talk about.

How's the new name? I think better and a little more fitting. Other options I've been considering are "Rivals", "Families", "Lineage", "Divided Lines" I'm really liking the "Royal Lines" though, sort of connects the line/pattern artwork to the idea that each family has a set of traits.

Still not sure about the back, I might give it a try with the look I'm working on with the tuck if that turns out good.

Thanks!

[shaitani]

I actually prefer the new name(s) much more than the older 'Faction' and definitely more than 'Fanatics'. I like both Royal Lines and Lineage as names.
Next, I don't have a problem with the Jokers as others do, just thought I'd throw out my opinion.
My only comment regarding the tuck is that the front might be a liiittle too fancy for its own good.
That is, the lower part appears a lot fancier than the remainder of the art in the deck but more importantly a lot fancier than the black on white text right in the center of it.

Lastly, just wanted to toss out an idea in case you fancied it: The front could have a white background and a large royal crest made up of all 4 styles associated with the 4 suits, but each style makes up 1 quadrant of the crest. That way if you keep the black on white 'Royal Lines', it can sit above or below the crest and not look out of place.

Anyway love the direction it's going, keep up the good work!

[RichK]

I actually prefer the new name(s) much more than the older 'Faction' and definitely more than 'Fanatics'. I like both Royal Lines and Lineage as names.

My only comment regarding the tuck is that the front might be a liiittle too fancy for its own good.
That is, the lower part appears a lot fancier than the remainder of the art in the deck but more importantly a lot fancier than the black on white text right in the center of it.

Lastly, just wanted to toss out an idea in case you fancied it: The front could have a white background and a large royal crest made up of all 4 styles associated with the 4 suits, but each style makes up 1 quadrant of the crest. That way if you keep the black on white 'Royal Lines', it can sit above or below the crest and not look out of place.

Anyway love the direction it's going, keep up the good work!

I agree with @shaitani about the tuck. The lower part is very fancy and intricate vs your courts. I like the idea of a shield/crest with the 4 corners representing each suit.

[TGunitedcardists]

Royal Lines or Lineage both work as names. Choose one and you can put the name issue to bed.

Still don't like the tuck case. The idea of a crest is good or if you don't want to create more artwork, what about reusing the court card faces in a collage or something?

[Gwafio]

It's been a little while since I put anything up on here, In the last few weeks I've been finalizing pricing, shipping, and choosing printer options while putting the last few touches on the design. Here is a preview link to the project while I get it completely ready for going live:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/17 ... n=b9d42dc4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I intend to launch this project Friday of next week (2/10). Feedback is still welcome, but I believe the design is where I want it to be, at least for the launch. I'll be printing with Legends if we can hit my stretch goal of $6,500, otherwise my basic goal will be with MPC.

Thanks so much for everybody who contributed on this thread! This process has definitely pushed the design forward in my opinion. When the design does get launched please do me one more favor and share it as much as you can. I'll post a thread on the new deck board next week.

[shermjack]

The one thing that sticks out to me almost immediately is the JoH shield, which is quite plain and to be honest, looks a little like a lop-sided pair of breasts...maybe adding a few lines or detail to the shield will help it a bit.