The Confidence deck from Bedeceived on Kickstarter???

[c.stover]

Hey Collin,

Thanks for coming on the boards and giving us the scoop directly from the horse's mouth!

- Russell

You're welcome. Thanks for inviting me. Hopefully it clears some things up.

Collin

[Sinsandman]

Collin,
Thanks for the explanation. Most of us knew the truth and were basically just waiting for affirmation. In regards to no profit and such...you did state that you had profit from the first deck and decided to "film an effect" with it that required you to trek across the country. Even at that 2k is a lot of money to a lot of people. And a 10k credit line thanks to the parents is also a lot of money. And they just brush it off and say "proud of ya".
Thank god your parents were wealthy enough to fulfill your dreams. You said you were "only 16" when yo started which was...a little over a year ago? So you're like 17 or 18 now right?
I think you are doing the right thing by trying to get you parents their money back. So by any means, do so.
I guess my issues come from the bad business ventures and bad money handling and the preorder and all that. But, that may be expected from someone who is not yet a legal adult, so some leeway should be given...right?
Also, this whole CEO business and "we" wording and all that. You are your only employee in both "businesses" why not just drop all that acting like you're bigger than you are and be transparent like you claim to be?

[alric]

I don't really think its such a big issue that he uses "we" instead of "I" or refers to himself as a company. At the end of the day, its about producing a quality deck and getting out to the supporters.

I think Collin was as transparent as it gets, he gave a full and personal accounting of the situation. I'm glad to see that he got the remaining funding he needed on KickStarter to complete his trilogy and pay his parents back.

[BMPokerworld]

I don't really think its such a big issue that he uses "we" instead of "I" or refers to himself as a company. At the end of the day, its about producing a quality deck and getting out to the supporters.

I think Collin was as transparent as it gets, he gave a full and personal accounting of the situation. I'm glad to see that he got the remaining funding he needed on KickStarter to complete his trilogy and pay his parents back.

As always, if your comfortable with the seller, then buy the deck. For me, dealing with someone who is either ignorant or incompetent just does not work. Unless he changed his policy, he does not sell wholesale. Just because a business buys something, that does not mean you are selling wholesale. Selling wholesale is when you significantly reduce the price for someone buying in large quantities. Here is what He sent me back on June 3, 2012:

I hope you're having a great day! While we do wholesale this deck, we do not offer a lower price to wholesale it. The reason is because this is an extremely limited deck (Only 2500 printed) and it will never be printed again. By the time we ship everything out, it will most likely be sold out already since over half of the stock is gone in one night. Once our decks sell out, the retail price from wholesalers skyrockets, and with good reason. Therefore we sell at retail price to everyone since it's just going to go up anyways.

Thank you for your interest, and I hope you get some Mystery!

So he either is ignorant and does not understand what wholesale actually means or he is just incompetent. Either way it is a pass for me.

Thanks!

[sway]

As always, if your comfortable with the seller, then buy the deck. For me, dealing with someone who is either ignorant or incompetent just does not work. Unless he changed his policy, he does not sell wholesale. Just because a business buys something, that does not mean you are selling wholesale. Selling wholesale is when you significantly reduce the price for someone buying in large quantities. Here is what He sent me back on June 3, 2012:

I hope you're having a great day! While we do wholesale this deck, we do not offer a lower price to wholesale it. The reason is because this is an extremely limited deck (Only 2500 printed) and it will never be printed again. By the time we ship everything out, it will most likely be sold out already since over half of the stock is gone in one night. Once our decks sell out, the retail price from wholesalers skyrockets, and with good reason. Therefore we sell at retail price to everyone since it's just going to go up anyways.

Thank you for your interest, and I hope you get some Mystery!

So he either is ignorant and does not understand what wholesale actually means or he is just incompetent. Either way it is a pass for me.

Thanks!

I don't think you are being fair here. By the way you talk it just looks like you are dissatisfied by the fact Collin didn't want to make business with you and is taking advantage of his mistakes to make him look bad. He hasn't done anything reprehensible from what I see.

As for the wholesale story, he did say he was able to do exactly what is defined by WHOLESALE in every dictionary I looked over:

wholesale[ hohl-seyl ]
noun
1. the sale of goods in quantity, as to retailers or jobbers, for resale (retail).

So, the idea that he had to cut down his profits while wholesaling was just your personal assumption, although it's the most common path.

Well, in the end, he did not had to rely in any middleman to sell out his first 2 decks.

[stelwibe]

First off thanks to Collin for explaining the situation. Not always easy to lay everything on the table and admirable that you did it.

In my opinion, if he facilitated the design, production, shipment and all the ins and outs of moving 2 decks successfully at the age of 17 (plus or minus a year either way), I doubt he is ignorant or incompetent. I would agree with a misunderstanding of "wholesale", which I would equate more to a now better understood lack of experience. At some point in time, anyone starting a business has to evaluate the "make more on less" or "make less on more" dillema. Gotta love Econ 101.

Personally I will be backing and look forward to getting all three. It is a nice way to catch up on previously issued decks.

EDIT-------
Sinsandman - what is this "most of us knew the truth and we were basically just waiting for affirmation" stuff. You threw the dude under the bus and all but backed over him . Just messing with you. Someone must have really taken you to the cleaner and I am not looking forward to the time it happens to me.

[vjose32]

So.... what happens if this KS campaign fails? All the people who pre-ordered are screwed?

I haven't ordered any of his decks, and these kind of practices make him look really bad

CBJ

Who knows. This is the problem when you have people who are in business but don't have any money and everything they do, they have to use other people's money. Like Russell said:

So he is running a KS project to pay off the bills from his poor money management and business skills. No thanks.

Think about it, how many Kickstarter projects or other projects where the creator needed the money upfront to get the decks produced, have really gone smoothly? Almost all of them have had some issue. There have been a few, 4PM, CCC, Encarded, Hidden Mirrors and Galvanic that have gone well, but that is probably it. The rest have been nothing but a headache.

Thanks!

Um...is that not the whole point of Kickstarter? To get the funds you need for your project? Your complaint doesn't make much sense. And to me it just sounds like you want to buy decks cheap so you can maximize your profits when it's his deck and he should be able to sell it to resellers and customers at whatever rates he feels is best and whatever rates he needs to charge to cover his costs, it's that simple.

[BMPokerworld]

As always, if your comfortable with the seller, then buy the deck. For me, dealing with someone who is either ignorant or incompetent just does not work. Unless he changed his policy, he does not sell wholesale. Just because a business buys something, that does not mean you are selling wholesale. Selling wholesale is when you significantly reduce the price for someone buying in large quantities. Here is what He sent me back on June 3, 2012:

I hope you're having a great day! While we do wholesale this deck, we do not offer a lower price to wholesale it. The reason is because this is an extremely limited deck (Only 2500 printed) and it will never be printed again. By the time we ship everything out, it will most likely be sold out already since over half of the stock is gone in one night. Once our decks sell out, the retail price from wholesalers skyrockets, and with good reason. Therefore we sell at retail price to everyone since it's just going to go up anyways.

Thank you for your interest, and I hope you get some Mystery!

So he either is ignorant and does not understand what wholesale actually means or he is just incompetent. Either way it is a pass for me.

Thanks!

I don't think you are being fair here. By the way you talk it just looks like you are dissatisfied by the fact Collin didn't want to make business with you and is taking advantage of his mistakes to make him look bad. He hasn't done anything reprehensible from what I see.

As for the wholesale story, he did say he was able to do exactly what is defined by WHOLESALE in every dictionary I looked over:

wholesale[ hohl-seyl ]
noun
1. the sale of goods in quantity, as to retailers or jobbers, for resale (retail).

So, the idea that he had to cut down his profits while wholesaling was just your personal assumption, although it's the most common path.

Well, in the end, he did not had to rely in any middleman to sell out his first 2 decks.

Well clearly you have no concept of standard business practices either. If you sell it wholesale at the same price as retail, then as anyone with common sense would know, it is not wholesale.

I am not upset. I did not even ask about buying this deck wholesale. I am simply pointing out that he lacks the common basic understanding of business. I would have not even brought it up, except for the fact that he says he wholesales when he doesn't. If he has changed his policy and actually does wholesale his product, then kudos for him for learning how business gets done. In any event, I am not interested in purchasing his product wholesale or retail.

Thanks!

Thanks

[BMPokerworld]

So.... what happens if this KS campaign fails? All the people who pre-ordered are screwed?

I haven't ordered any of his decks, and these kind of practices make him look really bad

CBJ

Who knows. This is the problem when you have people who are in business but don't have any money and everything they do, they have to use other people's money. Like Russell said:

So he is running a KS project to pay off the bills from his poor money management and business skills. No thanks.

Think about it, how many Kickstarter projects or other projects where the creator needed the money upfront to get the decks produced, have really gone smoothly? Almost all of them have had some issue. There have been a few, 4PM, CCC, Encarded, Hidden Mirrors and Galvanic that have gone well, but that is probably it. The rest have been nothing but a headache.

Thanks!

Um...is that not the whole point of Kickstarter? To get the funds you need for your project? Your complaint doesn't make much sense. And to me it just sounds like you want to buy decks cheap so you can maximize your profits when it's his deck and he should be able to sell it to resellers and customers at whatever rates he feels is best and whatever rates he needs to charge to cover his costs, it's that simple.

As usual Victor, your wrong again. Nobody questioned why people use Kickstarter. What everyone was questioning was his reasoning which did not make sense. He has cleared it up and said what I have said from the beginning. He did not get enough money from his pre-order and that is why he is using Kickstarter. As I have stated numerous times, I never contacted him about this deck when he was selling them on his website or when he put them on Kickstarter.

Thanks!

[vjose32]

As always, if your comfortable with the seller, then buy the deck. For me, dealing with someone who is either ignorant or incompetent just does not work. Unless he changed his policy, he does not sell wholesale. Just because a business buys something, that does not mean you are selling wholesale. Selling wholesale is when you significantly reduce the price for someone buying in large quantities. Here is what He sent me back on June 3, 2012:

I hope you're having a great day! While we do wholesale this deck, we do not offer a lower price to wholesale it. The reason is because this is an extremely limited deck (Only 2500 printed) and it will never be printed again. By the time we ship everything out, it will most likely be sold out already since over half of the stock is gone in one night. Once our decks sell out, the retail price from wholesalers skyrockets, and with good reason. Therefore we sell at retail price to everyone since it's just going to go up anyways.

Thank you for your interest, and I hope you get some Mystery!

So he either is ignorant and does not understand what wholesale actually means or he is just incompetent. Either way it is a pass for me.

Thanks!

I don't think you are being fair here. By the way you talk it just looks like you are dissatisfied by the fact Collin didn't want to make business with you and is taking advantage of his mistakes to make him look bad. He hasn't done anything reprehensible from what I see.

As for the wholesale story, he did say he was able to do exactly what is defined by WHOLESALE in every dictionary I looked over:

wholesale[ hohl-seyl ]
noun
1. the sale of goods in quantity, as to retailers or jobbers, for resale (retail).

So, the idea that he had to cut down his profits while wholesaling was just your personal assumption, although it's the most common path.

Well, in the end, he did not had to rely in any middleman to sell out his first 2 decks.

Well clearly you have no concept of standard business practices either. If you sell it wholesale at the same price as retail, then as anyone with common sense would know, it is not wholesale.

I am not upset. I did not even ask about buying this deck wholesale. I am simply pointing out that he lacks the common basic understanding of business. I would have not even brought it up, except for the fact that he says he wholesales when he doesn't. If he has changed his policy and actually does wholesale his product, then kudos for him for learning how business gets done. In any event, I am not interested in purchasing his product wholesale or retail.

Thanks!

Thanks

And your business practices are better? Considering the fact that you outright refuse to do business with some customers.

[BMPokerworld]

As always, if your comfortable with the seller, then buy the deck. For me, dealing with someone who is either ignorant or incompetent just does not work. Unless he changed his policy, he does not sell wholesale. Just because a business buys something, that does not mean you are selling wholesale. Selling wholesale is when you significantly reduce the price for someone buying in large quantities. Here is what He sent me back on June 3, 2012:

I hope you're having a great day! While we do wholesale this deck, we do not offer a lower price to wholesale it. The reason is because this is an extremely limited deck (Only 2500 printed) and it will never be printed again. By the time we ship everything out, it will most likely be sold out already since over half of the stock is gone in one night. Once our decks sell out, the retail price from wholesalers skyrockets, and with good reason. Therefore we sell at retail price to everyone since it's just going to go up anyways.

Thank you for your interest, and I hope you get some Mystery!

So he either is ignorant and does not understand what wholesale actually means or he is just incompetent. Either way it is a pass for me.

Thanks!

I don't think you are being fair here. By the way you talk it just looks like you are dissatisfied by the fact Collin didn't want to make business with you and is taking advantage of his mistakes to make him look bad. He hasn't done anything reprehensible from what I see.

As for the wholesale story, he did say he was able to do exactly what is defined by WHOLESALE in every dictionary I looked over:

wholesale[ hohl-seyl ]
noun
1. the sale of goods in quantity, as to retailers or jobbers, for resale (retail).

So, the idea that he had to cut down his profits while wholesaling was just your personal assumption, although it's the most common path.

Well, in the end, he did not had to rely in any middleman to sell out his first 2 decks.

Well clearly you have no concept of standard business practices either. If you sell it wholesale at the same price as retail, then as anyone with common sense would know, it is not wholesale.

I am not upset. I did not even ask about buying this deck wholesale. I am simply pointing out that he lacks the common basic understanding of business. I would have not even brought it up, except for the fact that he says he wholesales when he doesn't. If he has changed his policy and actually does wholesale his product, then kudos for him for learning how business gets done. In any event, I am not interested in purchasing his product wholesale or retail.

Thanks!

Thanks

And your business practices are better? Considering the fact that you outright refuse to do business with some customers.

Not customers, just idiots like you. You know the ones who tell people "they don't read so good" only to find out they are the ones that don't. Remember that post you made where you were wrong and didn't even apologize for your mistake? Remember that one?

Thanks!

P.S. I guess I am not the only one who has blocked you. Didn't you post that Theory11 blocked you from Facebook and Twitter? Hmm, the question should be who will sell you, instead of who has you blocked.

[Sinsandman]

Lol Stelwibe...I may have been had once or twice. I am just looking for a return to good within this entire community and hobby. Right now it is for chit and there are some huge reasons why...but that is a whole other thread.

[DelMagic]

"And your business practices are better? Considering the fact that you outright refuse to do business with some customers."

I don't think it is unusual at all to have "customers" you outright refuse to do business with. I have a few buyers on Ebay that are blocked from buying from me. Hikeeba mentioned no international selling due to problems with that. Any business that doesn't have enough scruples to forego the profit to stand up for what is right is the one you ought be wary of.

[BMPokerworld]

"And your business practices are better? Considering the fact that you outright refuse to do business with some customers."

I don't think it is unusual at all to have "customers" you outright refuse to do business with. I have a few buyers on Ebay that are blocked from buying from me. Hikeeba mentioned no international selling due to problems with that. Any business that doesn't have enough scruples to forego the profit to stand up for what is right is the one you ought be wary of.

Don't worry about Victor. He just comes in, tries to stir up trouble, then crawls back under the rock he came from. In fairness, I may have been a little harder on Collin then I should have, but I really felt he put the part in about selling wholesale, in direct response to my comments about him not doing it. Clearly he isn't. Retail is retail no matter whether a business or a person buys it. I don't think in my prior posts I was being degartory and they weren't meant to be.

I never said anyone should not support this deck. As I always say, if you like the deck and trust the seller, buy it. That statement applies to this deck as well.

Thanks!

[Russell]

CCC has a few emails/addresses we refuse to ship to again. It's not an uncommon business practice.


---------------------------------
Let's get back to the Confidence deck. Discussions outside of this need to be taken to PM or email.
---------------------------------


While this deck isn't my favorite deck out there, I do have to hand it to Collin for coming up with some unique court cards.

[stelwibe]

And Russell comes in like a good Moderator and refocuses all of the squabbling (me included). It was just getting interesting....

Seriously though, has anyone seen a total print count on this deck? It is probably somewhere and I missed it. I am also curious if it consistent with the style or mystery print counts?

[Russell]

I believe Collin said it was 2,500. I am not sure of the others but I assume it is the same.

[BMPokerworld]

I believe Collin said it was 2,500. I am not sure of the others but I assume it is the same.

Yeah, from what I remember, they were all printed in quantities of 2500.

Thanks!

[stelwibe]

Thanks Russell and BMP. Seems like that is a pretty common quantity and what I would have guessed.