Siren's Deck- OCM playing cards - relaunch soon

[Cbkimble]

I'm pretty sure they're creating more accounts to try to boost his credibility.

[Mike Ratledge]

I'm pretty sure they're creating more accounts to try to boost his credibility.

The supposed "UntiedStates" account created here two days ago is NOT Nate from Arizona, it's some arse from Atlanta, per the "WhoIs" lookup. I think we're being double-trolled.

[decibelhz]

Jeez, these past few days have been interesting in the playing card world. You've got this dude, the untied states dude(s) and now we have public mudslinging between Edo and The Blue Crown (Alex) on instagram. Something must be in the water.

[jerichoholic]

I'm pretty sure they're creating more accounts to try to boost his credibility.

The supposed "UntiedStates" account created here two days ago is NOT Nate from Arizona, it's some arse from Atlanta, per the "WhoIs" lookup. I think we're being double-trolled.

I don't know what's up with that but his accusations against me lead me to believe it is him because of the emails he has bee sending me.

What happened with Blue Crown and Edo??

[Cbkimble]

I think they're either the same person or a small group just trying to stir the pot. We dont know what we're talking about. We're just a bunch of ignorant trolls who are judgemental @holes.

[hawk199]

Wow this was a fun read....laughed so hard because didn't know 'White Gold' was claimed by him which is ridiculous . Even big company can't claim those words.

I think the admin or mod can check the ip of unitedstate account (which I think he did)

I have a feeling it is the wickedschmat because his comment and the fake us comment here is almost identical (as the way it is written)

[nECr0MaNCeD]

Well my timing is spot on today. I was planning to back this later tonight but after seeing what an asshat the creator is that won't be happening.

And to Billdragon.... While I admit being interested in your art, mediocre as the deck may be, you aren't even in the same ballpark as Randy Butterfield. Randy has designed and delivered some of the best decks in the business over the last few years. Decks that will be collected and remembered for a very long time. You, on the other hand, are an amusing footnote that will be soon forgotten.

[billdragon]

Alright. seeing that no one wants to use my contact information. I guess we really have to put this to light completely
which is fine.

and I have cleared some issues with the you guys on the comment wall. but there are more questions for me here, am i right?
please ask away. before that I have 2 things i need to confirm with randy and mike. I will pm you guys after wards.

1) no, that's absurd. I only made this 1 single account on uc ok? lets be honest here, can i see the ip address. I am in china shanghai right now with my grandma's funeral as i already said. if you want to know my address, pm me.

2) so I already cleared the fact that, I never said anything about i own the copy right to WG. if you guys want to go further. please at least show me where i said about copyright first and the i can help you guys.

3) this is my first ks project, second campaign. this is my first uc account, 2nd post (first is introduction)

4) for the randy incidence, I apologize for bringing him up again in a misunderstanding thinking that mike got a phone call from him. and i believe i already made up with that in the pm with mike.

5) as for randy, 5 month ago. I was very mad, because his "white gold" was placed on your grinder deck in less than a day after I placed mine for my deck, since my deck do use white gold cm paper (trademark name under cm)

I mean, he really should have just flag my post really or report it, and if ks think its not true with no evidence. it would have been taken off right away.

the only communication we had after that was randy sent an message to my backer keri back then, where he stated 3 things
- he apologize to me indrectly saing if he know the name, he wont have used it on his second campaign of the same project. (in his first project, white gold is not in excistence)

- he said something about he is using "white gold iridescent foil" on his new 45 dollar deck one, so its natural for him name it white gold

- he showed a link to the journeay article he paid when doing pr, showing a picture of he and his family and his daughter.



I do apologize to randy here that in the misudnersatnding with mike, I thought randy called mike.
but anything else, about what i said in the comment. I can clear it here if randy wants to talk about it. I mean we never really talked about it face to face before. and the issue was dropped for 5 month. I will pm randy after this comment asking if he want to talk about it ok?

anything you guys want to know?
the tuck and tucker, seriosuly, I can't change that in award tier but i changed all on page.

default print comapny: epcc WG paper is optional

I came back today, seeing that you guys comment on ks and dont want to email me or call me about it. or drop the issue.
you guys can go ahead with the questions now

[Mike Ratledge]

Thanks, Bill - it was not Randy that called, but I did get a PM here before I got up that day. The wife's doing a little better, so I'm taking a short while to catch everything up - and check the winners of the "UC2015 Deck of the Year" contest.

[billdragon]

Thanks, Bill - it was not Randy that called, but I did get a PM here before I got up that day. The wife's doing a little better, so I'm taking a short while to catch everything up - and check the winners of the "UC2015 Deck of the Year" contest.

sir, thank you very much. I am very sorry ok?

and guys. randy, if you are seeing this, I am sorry. I was new.
I should have calmed my head and messaged you in ks 5 month ago ok?

let me know

[billdragon]

and i will donate to uc after my campaign ok guys?
as my apology for being new?

I will continue to answer anything you guys want to know about my deck right here

[sinjin7]

I'm happy to see you've apparently re-thought your behavior here at UC. Your new attitude is a great improvement. You clearly have talent, so if your conduct and professionalism can catch up to your artistic skill, you'll be in good shape. Good luck with your campaign.

[Cbkimble]

I'm glad to see you're at least trying to show that you went overboard. Its an unfortunate series of events that have occurred. I want see myself backing this project, although the artwork is great as I've mentioned before, at this time. Maybe in the future. We aren't a bad group here but we do have some bad apples. Good luck.

[Talisman]

Glad to see you changed direction.

[billdragon]

thank you guys. its alright, I will post my next playing card project on here too if that happens.

its unfortunate that we didn't have a good start. but hopefully you guys will know me and more about my project as time go by


btw, if we solved all the previous problem that were a bit negative mooded here. and you are still on my ks campaign.

I welcome you all to come back and talk with me about my project ok??


I only asked to keep the conversation in UC because of what happend previously, if we are good. I do invite you guys back to chat
I saw admin mike's new comment, so I will respect what he said.

[Räpylätassu]

Glad to see that you are rebuilding the bridges. You have gained at least my trust again. I re-backed the project. I really like the artwork.

How are you going to handle the shipping? By yourself or do you have a fulfilment company? And from which country are these going to be shipped from? I'm mostly asking because the shipping is only 5 dollars to Finland a ka The Place Behind God's Back, I just want to be sure that you have the calculated shipping costs well.

I hope that we can look back and laugh at this situation in a few years

[billdragon]

tassu thank you, that's very kind of you (sry, I have no clue how to type the letters on my keyboard before that, the a had 2 dots)

currently I am shipping from canada. and I'm doing it by myself.

I am doing 5 for everything becuase of 2 reasons
1) you know how every playing card project, they always different shippings for different regions, and its like 4,5, 6 +add on
So I simplified the whole thing by just 5, so the first time backers can have a easier time (at least thats what I thought back then, this method was suggest by one of my backers)

2) in canada, you can ship things out depend on zones in the world. and it can range from 4-7 dollars calculated to pound, if it get too heavy, my be 10-12. extra pound cost extra money (around 1-2 cad)

but for the heavier package (higher tiers) its more expensive, so the extra part, I just take out my proft from the product and pay for that


So if its for only 2 deck, send to lets say, europe (zone 3, i believe). that should cost like 7 -8 cad. the extra 3 cad, I take it out of the profit from the cards to pay for it.
so yea, I am not making more than other people if its only the tier for 2 decks normally, but i make more with other tiers.
And for the sake of simplifying. that's what i decided to do for now.


if you have better suggestings to the situation i have now, I be more than happy to listen

[Räpylätassu]

Okay good to know on the shipping. Seems that you have done calculations well and there won't be any problems.

To this situation, just keep doing what you are doing! Rebuilding bridges and trust, I'm sure that when we get these great decks this little fight in here will be forgiven and forgotten.

Yep the letter ä is a letter used in Finnish language and not in a very many other languages. My name Räpylätassu is actually a combination of two words, Räpylä = Flipper and Tassu = Paw. My name actually comes from a finnish comedy sketch, where the idea is that a guy called Sauli comes, rings a doorbell on a appartment, another guy called Pulkkinen opens up and always says "Kato Sauli terve! (Well look, Sauli, hello!) And always asks (No mitäpä...? = Whaddup...?) and always adds just totally random nickname, which onetime was Räpyläjalka (=Flipperfoot). I just thought Räpylätassu sounded better. Anyways the joke is always that Sauli has gone home and that there is always something done to his appartment and he comes to ask Pulkkinen that what the hell he has done this time. Ones they had put a sequoia tree to grow in his appartment, which they were going to grow and shape it like the worlds biggest and most beautiful ****. When Sauli asks "That tree, it will grow for hundreds of years! What the hell is the idea on this?" Pulkkinen just says "I know Sauli, but all we have is time." Basically the joke is always, there is always something very bizarre with the appartment and Pulkkinen never gets that he is destroying a guys life and not helping him like he thinks. It works better on screen

Edit: My hundreth message!

[billdragon]

hahaha.ah ok. thank you tassu

sigh... life is so intresting if you can have a friend like sauli and grow a sequoia tree. my problem is that i just draw everyday, and it gets very lonely until times like this where i get to meet my backers.

that's actually very very deep. "all we have is time" because even though sauli said that, the audience clearly know he brought more than just time, but also happiness and jokes.

sorry, going off topic here. guys any more questions?? please ask away or critic away.

[billdragon]

I did a very deep reflection today. and thinking back. I realized I own mike and everyone an explanation.
guys, please feel free to make more comment on my comment wall for questions.

but see the below comment

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/15 ... s/comments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I am going to close this post now and move to a new one. beucase i believe everyone needs to see my apology

http://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8474" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;





thank you admin mike ,for helping me link the things, so everyone can see I wasn't sure how to do that

[RandyButterfield]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the apology!! I also apologize and say I'm Sorry for all of my part of the negative back-and-forth between us. I'm usually a quiet and low-key type of guy, so this controversy has been weighing heavy on my mind. I'm glad it's over!

Thanks, Randy



I want to take a minute to elaborate on the pricing for the White Grinders Deck. The highest per Deck price I charged during the campaign was $32 (well under $45 or $50). The $32 price also included FREE U.S. Shipping.

The combination of the extremely low 500 print quantity (half of the usual 1,000 minimum for the LPCC and EPCC printer), and all of the printing features equaled out to over $10.00 per Deck for production costs. Below are the the lower price tiers from the campaign:

$14 (Free U.S. Shipping) - 1 Copper Deck
$14 (Free U.S. Shipping) - 1 Blue Deck
$24 (Free U.S. Shipping) - 1 Copper Deck and 1 Blue Deck
$32 (Free U.S. Shipping) - 1 White Deck
$40 (Free U.S. Shipping) - 1 White Deck and 1 Copper Deck (2 Decks total)
$50 (Free U.S. Shipping) - 1 White Deck, 1 Copper Deck and 1 Blue Deck (3 Decks total)

The price for the White Deck is reduced as the Tiers go higher, and have more Copper and Blue Decks added into the mix.

[billdragon]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the apology!! I also apologize and say I'm Sorry for all of my part of the negative back-and-forth between us. I'm usually a quiet and low-key type of guy, so this controversy has been weighing heavy on my mind. I'm glad it's over!

Thanks, Randy



I want to take a minute to elaborate on the pricing for the White Grinders Deck. The highest per Deck price I charged during the campaign was $32 (well under $45 or $50). The $32 price also included FREE U.S. Shipping.

The combination of the extremely low 500 print quantity (half of the usual 1,000 minimum for the LPCC and EPCC printer), and all of the printing features equaled out to over $10.00 per Deck for production costs. Below are the the lower price tiers from the campaign:

$14 (Free U.S. Shipping) - 1 Copper Deck
$14 (Free U.S. Shipping) - 1 Blue Deck
$24 (Free U.S. Shipping) - 1 Copper Deck and 1 Blue Deck
$32 (Free U.S. Shipping) - 1 White Deck
$40 (Free U.S. Shipping) - 1 White Deck and 1 Copper Deck (2 Decks total)
$50 (Free U.S. Shipping) - 1 White Deck, 1 Copper Deck and 1 Blue Deck (3 Decks total)

The price for the White Deck is reduced as the Tiers go higher, and have more Copper and Blue Decks added into the mix.

thanks bud. I guess its not so bad, we get to talk again and work it all out
and yes, I got the explanation for the legend gold holographic foil from taiwan, that is true.

I look forward for the better chats and cooperations between us in the future

[Mike Ratledge]

Yep the letter ä is a letter used in Finnish language and not in a very many other languages.

Well, let's say "Scandinavian" and not many others. In general, it's a double "a", like the real surname of "Floki" in the History series "Vikings" which is "Skasgaard" if literally translated to English. In Dansk (Danish) or (Swedish) and obviously Finnish as well. In Swedish, it's written as "Skarsgärd".

I did a very deep reflection today. and thinking back. I realized I own mike and everyone an explanation.
guys, please feel free to make more comment on my comment wall for questions.

but see the below comment

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/15 ... s/comments..


I am going to close this post now and move to a new one. beucase i believe everyone needs to see my apology

http://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8474" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thank you admin mike ,for helping me link the things, so everyone can see I wasn't sure how to do that

You're fine, Bill! I already posted on your wall my thoughts as well. We just misunderstood each others intent, which is easy to do when English is not your native language. Strictly speaking, mine I guess would be Danish though, I was born as a military brat into a family shortly after WW2 at the State Department's København outpost in Danmark.

I've lived in my father's hometown of Charleston South Carolina since before I can remember, taking a trip to Danmark is something new to me, even though I have relatives "over there".

I used to get upset with the writers of "Vikings" because they take too many liberties with the script: for example an "earl" in Danmark is a "jarl" - always has been, no such thing as an earl. People notice when I occasionally slip up and fail to capitalize words, like "hr Mikel Ratledge" because in Danish many words we consider "proper nouns" in English don't get capitalized (hr = "Mr." in English).

[MagikFingerz]

Yep the letter ä is a letter used in Finnish language and not in a very many other languages.

Well, let's say "Scandinavian" and not many others. In general, it's a double "a", like the real surname of "Floki" in the History series "Vikings" which is "Skasgaard" if literally translated to English. In Dansk (Danish) or (Swedish) and obviously Finnish as well. In Swedish, it's written as "Skarsgärd".

Sorry to keep sidetracking this thread, but I have to correct you, Mike.

[puts Viking helmet on]

The two dots above a's and o's (exclusive to Swedish and Finnish) are actually (originally) small e's on top of them, making ä = ae and ö = oe (æ/Æ and ø/Ø in Norwegian and Danish). The double a is what would have been a small circle above an a (å/Å), which is used by the Scandinavian countries only.

Additionally, "Scandinavia" only consists of Norway, Denmark and Sweden. To include Finland and Iceland you'd have to say "the Nordic countries".

[billdragon]

LOL, hahahahaha. aw man. moderator magik

you know i always really loved it when admin mike tell me history. last time he told me about american collector's club and joker 52, it was really respectable.

and wow, I did Not know that you are dannish and born after WW2. sigh... ok here the truth.

I am only 24.............prob explains my inexperience.
I am born in xuzhou in china, now lives in toronto canada.

(puts on helmet) can't find a viking helmet

[RichK]

I used to get upset with the writers of "Vikings" because they take too many liberties with the script: for example an "earl" in Danmark is a "jarl" - always has been, no such thing as an earl. People notice when I occasionally slip up and fail to capitalize words, like "hr Mikel Ratledge" because in Danish many words we consider "proper nouns" in English don't get capitalized (hr = "Mr." in English).

Mike,

A friend of mine, big Viking historian buff, wrote a fictional novel with"jarl" in it and I had to ask her 'what is a jarl?' so I can understand why the tv show went with "earl" since most people understand the rank of "Earl" in royalty terms.

Nice info on the non capitalization of Danish proper nouns too. Who said playing card discussion can't be learning tools for other languages/countries?

[jerichoholic]

Don't look now but someone else has "stolen" White Gold

[billdragon]

I guess its a popular name. oh well. (yea, I saw the snakes tuck, its really cool) I only named it WG because the paper I used is apparently called that.


btw, my project is funded guys. I thought I let everyone know here. thanks guys

Also, we never even got to talk about any artistic criticism for my art or deck itself. feel free to fire me some thoughts on that.

[montecarlojoe]

Haha - yeah - White and Gold is a very popular and clean looking combination. It's not unheard of for very large corporations to trademark a colour (for instance Cadbury purple or UPS brown) - but you have to be HUGE and the related branding ubiquitous. And even then in most cases the colour would have to be used in a mistakable context to be in breach.

I don't think anyone would argue the art as bad by any means - I like it a lot in general, and the aces look superb (the high saturateion colours against the earthy palette could have jarred somewhat - but I think it works, especially given the coloured highlights elsewhere in the deck).

One thing I wasn't keen on - and it may be limited to the promotional art, but the big-eyed chibi look isn't for me - what seems to be a realistic high-fantasy deck becomes a bit cartoony.
(Don't get me wrong I like manga and anime styles in the right context - I just don't feel it works here)

However I DO like the pencil style art, and the level of detail is great.

One other criticism is the design of the back of the cards, and courts - they are one-way designs - traditionally these designs are two way (i.e. it doesn't matter which way up you hold the card it looks the same). Clearly this isn't a deal breaker on an art based deck - but it does make it less attractive for magic, cardistry, fanning and some games. (The reason being that after a shuffle or series of cuts some cards will be upside-down and the deck can look messy; and "cheating" - or accusations of cheating - is easier in magic and games if you can obviously turn certain cards around in the deck)

I don't think there's any reason to change anything now this far through the campaign - but hopefully you'll find some of this feedback useful.

[billdragon]

Haha - yeah - White and Gold is a very popular and clean looking combination. It's not unheard of for very large corporations to trademark a colour (for instance Cadbury purple or UPS brown) - but you have to be HUGE and the related branding ubiquitous. And even then in most cases the colour would have to be used in a mistakable context to be in breach.

I don't think anyone would argue the art as bad by any means - I like it a lot in general, and the aces look superb (the high saturateion colours against the earthy palette could have jarred somewhat - but I think it works, especially given the coloured highlights elsewhere in the deck).

One thing I wasn't keen on - and it may be limited to the promotional art, but the big-eyed chibi look isn't for me - what seems to be a realistic high-fantasy deck becomes a bit cartoony.
(Don't get me wrong I like manga and anime styles in the right context - I just don't feel it works here)

However I DO like the pencil style art, and the level of detail is great.

One other criticism is the design of the back of the cards, and courts - they are one-way designs - traditionally these designs are two way (i.e. it doesn't matter which way up you hold the card it looks the same). Clearly this isn't a deal breaker on an art based deck - but it does make it less attractive for magic, cardistry, fanning and some games. (The reason being that after a shuffle or series of cuts some cards will be upside-down and the deck can look messy; and "cheating" - or accusations of cheating - is easier in magic and games if you can obviously turn certain cards around in the deck)

I don't think there's any reason to change anything now this far through the campaign - but hopefully you'll find some of this feedback useful.

yea, for sure. I did notice a lot of WG names popping up after my first campaign. its quite a common used name.

ohhhh, I see. I didn't know about the fact that back face also matters in up and down, that's a very solid point. I am going to remember that.

Yes, I also agree with you. on avoiding cartoony things. Cards should generate a feeling more towards mature-ish. If its too chidish, you can't play it on the table. lol, it would be kind of funny.

I guess so far I am ok, since I only kept the bigger eye things to promotional arts and posters. But thank you for solifying that point for me.

Thank you moderator monte, for your inputs