Siren's Deck- OCM playing cards - relaunch soon

[billdragon]

Hey guys

ok, so, this is the edit for the new relaunch.
the new link to relaunch is here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/15 ... m-workshop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I did send the link on kicktaq but its being weird, not sure whats up with the ninja part its telling me.

For the project, in the end I decided to go with mpc and self publishing due to time issues ( don't worry, I have very reliable printing agencies, 35 years in north america with custom dies and special seal) .


I didn't expect noir to actually come to my post and explain about npcc, UC is quiet a powerful place and noir is very nice, I can see he works very hard for his printer. I also want to thank admin/mods and others here for all the comments and other helps. It means a lot and I've decided to donate part of my pledge to uc after campaign, in hundreds (no bs talk or motives, to help out admin and the forum.)

I changed the attachments to abysses because that's the new deck, and I created 1 dollar tier if you guys wanna join me at the campaign as I may not have enough time anymore to hangout on uc as much as before after the relaunch.

that's all [BACON]

[joeblow]

It's a very nice looking artistic deck. And from Toronto! So good luck. I have pledged.

[PrincessTrouble]

That stardust stock looks very cool.

You might want to change "Tucker Box" to "Tuck Box" on your page.

[jerichoholic]

Looks pretty interesting, i'm in.

[billdragon]

thank you guys.
@joe (yea~ same hometown)

@princess- thank you, yes i saw your post on the other forum too. i will do the spelling revision shortly

i appreciate the support guys.

I made the deadline is a bit longer, just in case anything goes wrong in the process.

I know there people that doubt me here because i am new.

but i know a lot about the printing process of playing cards, to a point that i can self publish them with industrial printers.
on top of that, i worked really hard for this project.
its a really cool deck and i hope you guys will give me a chance on ks

thank you

[Cbkimble]

I love the artwork on these. Decks like this are one of the reasons I began collecting. I hope this funds.

[billdragon]

I love the artwork on these. Decks like this are one of the reasons I began collecting. I hope this funds.

yep, i hope so too. i am not good with pr, still learnning.
but, the deck i spent a lot of time and effort in, lots of secrets and fun inside to be discovered [BACON]

[billdragon]

more pictures

[RichK]

Would it make more sense to use just one card printing company instead of two? I don't think your goal is high enough for two printers. The artwork is great but reading the campaign I found very confusing.

Your Ancient deck picture of Aces is the Kings.
You say " if we do well on our project funding we will be able to add these features to the Deck" to use the 2 Ad cards to make the Ancient edition link cards. What amount of funding is needed?
Reading your Updates you say pledging for the 3S you get a free White Gold deck with the linked ad cards. You now have 1 EPCC and 2 USPCC deck to print for $20K CAD???
It still says "Tucker Box" even though you said you'll change it. If someone sees an error and tells you I think you should fix it immediately (life problems not withstanding).

I wish you luck but I fear you'll be spending a lot of your money getting this paid for and mailed. If I am wrong anywhere please correct me.

[Mike Ratledge]

Would it make more sense to use just one card printing company instead of two? I don't think your goal is high enough for two printers. The artwork is great but reading the campaign I found very confusing.

Your Ancient deck picture of Aces is the Kings.
...
It still says "Tucker Box" even though you said you'll change it. If someone sees an error and tells you I think you should fix it immediately (life problems not withstanding).

... If I am wrong anywhere please correct me.

This one's just not my cup of tea, as we say, but I can see that it appeals to a good range of people.

Unfortunately, he's stuck with "Tucker Box" in the descriptions. Once someone pledges for a tier, it can't be changed. The only option he has is to replace every single tier with that wording with a duplicate tier without it, and mark the old ones "Out of Stock", and I hardly see any benefit to doing it that way, it's just further confusing things.

Bill - I chunked you into the "Deck Artist" group - "on guard"...

[billdragon]

Would it make more sense to use just one card printing company instead of two? I don't think your goal is high enough for two printers. The artwork is great but reading the campaign I found very confusing.

Your Ancient deck picture of Aces is the Kings.
You say " if we do well on our project funding we will be able to add these features to the Deck" to use the 2 Ad cards to make the Ancient edition link cards. What amount of funding is needed?
Reading your Updates you say pledging for the 3S you get a free White Gold deck with the linked ad cards. You now have 1 EPCC and 2 USPCC deck to print for $20K CAD???
It still says "Tucker Box" even though you said you'll change it. If someone sees an error and tells you I think you should fix it immediately (life problems not withstanding).

I wish you luck but I fear you'll be spending a lot of your money getting this paid for and mailed. If I am wrong anywhere please correct me.

1) Hey. thank you for pointing out the ancient king part. I must have made an error when i was adding in more pictures for AD yesterday
2) I explained in the risk and challenge section. and it goes as below
-diamond (epcc stardust)
-Ancient (epcc linen classic, will upgrade to uspcc if funding have enough money)
- even i have to use 2 different printers, i already do have enough for that. I live in canada, so the min printing requirment is only 1000 for uspcc
3) i did notice the tucker box to tuck box issue. but that was friday. I explained it in my first update that because of a FAMILY EMERGENCY, i uploaded my campaign in a hurry before boarding a plane, so I would have some spelling errors. The problem you mentioned is only 1 of 15 small errors i made which i'been tirelessly fixing since last week. I waited this problem until the very last (I came back from family emergency yesterday mornning) becasue it is as admin Mike said, I also had that error in tiers. and i wasn't sure if i can FIX it by contacting KS, and that was for the delay

4)I am perfectly aware of the mailing cost. In canada, it ranges form 5-7cad for tier 3. I have great connection with joanna from USPCC canada, and amanda from EPCC NY. and I KNOW HOW PLAYING CARDS ARE MADE from scratch. literally from where the paper come from, what kind of printer. that's why i indicated i can even self publish it, because i have a local printing agency here ready to go for the expensive WG editions.
This project 's preparation has exceeded 1200 hours, I am well prepared for it

thank you letting me know the king error. hope these answers your questions

Jian

[billdragon]

Would it make more sense to use just one card printing company instead of two? I don't think your goal is high enough for two printers. The artwork is great but reading the campaign I found very confusing.

Your Ancient deck picture of Aces is the Kings.
...
It still says "Tucker Box" even though you said you'll change it. If someone sees an error and tells you I think you should fix it immediately (life problems not withstanding).

... If I am wrong anywhere please correct me.

This one's just not my cup of tea, as we say, but I can see that it appeals to a good range of people.

Unfortunately, he's stuck with "Tucker Box" in the descriptions. Once someone pledges for a tier, it can't be changed. The only option he has is to replace every single tier with that wording with a duplicate tier without it, and mark the old ones "Out of Stock", and I hardly see any benefit to doing it that way, it's just further confusing things.

Bill - I chunked you into the "Deck Artist" group - "on guard"...

Hey admin Mike
how are you

well, what can i say. i apologize you didn't liked my project? hehe. I have a soft and unique drawing style that requires heavy research, and its a little bit different from classic playing cards.
I know you have 4000 decks in collection, very impressive. Clearly that puts me out of league in terms of playing card knowledge.

As I explained earlier. that was only 1 of the 15 problems i had to fix since last week, and I've explained in my first update that i might have spelling errors because i uploaded the wording part of my campaign in a hurry before i boarded a plane for family emergency.

being a creator is very stressful. besides fixing errors, there are hundreds of emails i have to answer, plans to diverse to get pr, and i have to keep in touch with USPCC and EPCC of my prograss, in which right now. I am sure Joanna and Amanda from these companies are both seeing it right now.

I am perfectly aware of this tucker to tuck spelling errors, it has been rose to me a couple of times in the past days(friday). It is on my waiting list BECAUSE of what you said actually. the fact that i can't change the description in tier anymore for that spelling error. So I was waiting for KS' support to see if they can help. Except they havn't replied yet because they need 4 buisness days. but i have already fixed the rest on the page (the parts that i can fix today)


thats all. hope that helps.
Jian

[Mike Ratledge]

Jian, I didn't say anything was wrong, I just prefer the classic and throwback decks to the artsy style.

[PrincessTrouble]

I hope you stick with EPCC for both decks. I'm really tired of crappy registration from USPCC decks.

[billdragon]

Jian, I didn't say anything was wrong, I just prefer the classic and throwback decks to the artsy style.

Sir
I mean no harm as well.

But you are a respected figure here and admin. By putting negative comment here and suggesting i should replace all my tiers based on someone's comment whom is not my backer, even though you know very well that the idea of getting rid of my tiers means to get rid of my backers, already scared the people of this post to not comment on my section any further.

Now, i am not a sensitive person, but your last comment where you implied that you were gonna put me in to some kind of "on-guard" status with Admin privilege, basically implies that I am doing something wrong, and i am being deemed as a bad person. So I have no choice but to reply to you.

This is common sense here. If you are a random stranger, than that will just be a hate speech or jealousy speech. But you are an admin, and a retired justice of USA. Saying stuff like this will obviously be taking seriously and cause harm. I mean, its like if you are a startup magician and suddenly David Cooperfield comes to you, tells you that your stuff is bad, no one should come watch your show, and more importantly, i will be telling everyone you are a bad magician with my fame.

So, you can see why i am a bit offended here. But I am not a person whom held grudges, so thank you for clearing the situation for me with your reply for sure. And yes, i will remember that typo for next time and make sure it wont happend again.

-Jian

[billdragon]

I hope you stick with EPCC for both decks. I'm really tired of crappy registration from USPCC decks.

you know, that's actually new to me, espacially seeing that you are an experienced collector I will keep that in mind then.

personally speaking, I know epcc very well. Their cards are manufactured in china. and Being a chinese background myself, I also know where they are doing these normally.

uspcc cards are mostly printed in United States. and the air cushion is a bit better to play with on the poker table.
But I do agree that these cards, if they break, the inside is kind of.... disturbing, lets just put it this way, haha.
and uspcc is more expensive.

so, we will see what happens. i will definitely consult with my backers before that. I personally perfer the epcc+self publish WG tuck route myself

[Mike Ratledge]

Jian, I didn't say anything was wrong, I just prefer the classic and throwback decks to the artsy style.

Sir
I mean no harm as well.

But you are a respected figure here and admin. By putting negative comment here and suggesting i should replace all my tiers based on someone's comment whom is not my backer, even though you know very well that the idea of getting rid of my tiers means to get rid of my backers, already scared the people of this post to not comment on my section any further.

Now, i am not a sensitive person, but your last comment where you implied that you were gonna put me in to some kind of "on-guard" status with Admin privilege, basically implies that I am doing something wrong, and i am being deemed as a bad person. So I have no choice but to reply to you.

This is common sense here. If you are a random stranger, than that will just be a hate speech or jealousy speech. But you are an admin, and a retired justice of USA. Saying stuff like this will obviously be taking seriously and cause harm. I mean, its like if you are a startup magician and suddenly David Cooperfield comes to you, tells you that your stuff is bad, no one should come watch your show, and more importantly, i will be telling everyone you are a bad magician with my fame.

So, you can see why i am a bit offended here. But I am not a person whom held grudges, so thank you for clearing the situation for me with your reply for sure. And yes, i will remember that typo for next time and make sure it wont happend again.

-Jian

Bill/jian - must be the language barrier? Fair warning that I am not certain if you are serious, but what I said about adding you to the Deck Artist group and "on guard" was a joke, only meant to welcome you into the firing line, as we say.

I heard about this before I got out of bed this morning by someone calling my cell. I also got a very well written private message from one of the most respected artists in the business showing me how you had slandered his campaign with a "hit & run" pledge / broadside comment / unpledge on KS.

Admittedly I am not feeling well, and was staying in bed with my wife & kitten. Doctor tomorrow... I didn't need a flare fired overhead this morning.

BEFORE this gets ugly, consider this: I am a reasonable man. I own this free forum where you post this silly accusation because you misinterpreted my intent without bothering to ask even here - much less in private - what I meant.

I don't overreact to things, but if you wish to continue using this free forum, an apology - here in public, since you chose to write here instead of by Private mail - or you will find yourself locked out.

I hope that was clear enough, and you are smart enough to understand the importance & implications.

[sms69x]

I must say this campaign rings the warning bell on my book.
The all project is just too confusing.. You are advertising a "White Gold Metallic Stardust Paper" but as far as I can read from the campaign this will be a stretch goal "Depending on how well the campaign does we will be able to bump it up to a luxury grade white gold metallic star dust card stock." (your words).

So as of right now it seems that you have a nice design, but you have no clue or plan for which printer you will use, also if the project does well you will upgrade for that special stardust paper, but who will print it?? USPCC and EPCC don't offer this type of paper for the cards, so upgrading to this type of paper may mean downgrading from handling, durability and quality. But as I mentioned the all campaign is a mess and totally unclear, for all the intent and purpose you may very well print this deck by yourself, which may not be a good thing at all.

The only thing that I can say is that is a nice design and the special paper advertised looks very good, but as far as put my money upfront for this, when I see no direction or plan from the creator, that's a no for sure.

Good luck though.

[PrincessTrouble]

Jian, there is nothing remotely offensive or negative about Mike's post. You're either misinterpreting it or reading something into it that's not there.

Can you clarify something about the stardust paper? I know EPCC has stardust stock for tuck boxes. But do they have it for cards or are you sourcing it from another vendor besides EPCC?

[billdragon]

@ admin mike
I believe the person that called is randy butterfield. he took my previous campaign's deck title and used it on his own deck. so I wrote a comment on his wall listing exactly what he did. Its unfornate that in times like this, he still chooses to hide himself.
Sure, I will private message you. I am new to the forum, and seeing you posting stuff directly on my wall, i was assuming there isn't such function

@ princess
I mean no harm too,what harm can i make?? but weather or not damage is done has to be spoken from data. i am only speaking from my data on KS and what i seen.

@ sms
your message basically indicated that you didn't read anything from my campaign. so I will not be answering you here



UPDATE:
issues cleared with admin, all wording issues regarding to print agency are also cleared.
Admin mike is right, and i deeply apologize for the confusion over the printing issues

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/15 ... ying-cards" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sms69x]

@ sms
your message basically indicated that you didn't read anything from my campaign. so I will not be answering you here

You just answered all of my doubts. Thank you for that.

[billdragon]

no, actually. if you read the post previously, you would have know that i've answered everything that has to do printing agency.
And btw, its called a printing agency, not a printer. A printer stands for the machine that print things, and when it comes to playing cards, that makes a big difference, because playing cards can only be printed with a digital industrial level printer in form of box or drumroll and requires at least 2 custum dies for the cutting. How do I know all this? well, may be if you took the time to read my campaign, or the comment i posted previously where your questions are already answered, you would have know.

[morgyfly]

@billdragon i had a few questions i hope you can answer for me.

1) what is the box made of? (kind of card stock, weight, etc.)
2) your update from today 3/3 says that there is a fee for each deck upgrade? so if we don't pay the fee will we get a standard deck or would our order be canceled?

i've backed a lot of playing card campaigns and i've never seen deck upgrades handled this way. it is kind of confusing and needs to be clarified

[Mike Ratledge]

...

Bill/jian - f think we agreed to say that you just misinterpreted things or added implications that really weren't there - don't you agree?

PS - poking at the bear here usually end up getting you stung by wasps. If someone asks a reasonable question, quoting you in the process, saying that you won't respond is pretty much asking for people not to respect your judgment. That was why I jokingly said "on guard", because people here are brutally honest "good, bad or ugly"....

[billdragon]

[quote="billdragon" on a bad day"]
...

Bill/jian - f think we agreed to say that you just misinterpreted things or added implications that really weren't there - don't you agree?

PS - poking at the bear here usually end up getting you stung by wasps. If someone asks a reasonable question, quoting you in the process, saying that you won't respond is pretty much asking for people not to respect your judgment. That was why I jokingly said "on guard", because people here are brutally honest "good, bad or ugly"....[/quote]


yes, sure. lets stop the pointless conflict here. I do admit i prob misunderstood some stuff I will try to get use to his brutality/honesty, i am the same kind of person afterall . cheers

[Mike Ratledge]

... when it comes to playing cards, that makes a big difference, because playing cards can only be printed with a digital industrial level printer in form of box or drumroll and requires at least 2 custum dies for the cutting. How do I know all this? well, may be if you took the time to read my campaign, or the comment i posted previously where your questions are already answered, you would have know.

Just to be clear, no cards are printed digitally except very small batches by MPC or similar.

USPCC uses Web Press French made roll or sheet printers, completely offset lithography. Expert, Legends, CartaMundi and many others use German made Heidelberg "Speedmaster" (various models) which are all offset lithography, never digital. Even USPCC uses Heidelberg presses for small (custom) decks, never HP Indigo nor Kodak Kodachrome digital printers.

It's your lack of knowledge about how things are done that makes people wonder. The forum members between nearly 2000 of them (I deleted 800+ inactive users) are from 84 countries, last I checked. Between us, we pretty much know hot playing cards are produced.

[Mike Ratledge]

[quote="billdragon" on a bad day"]
...

Bill/jian - f think we agreed to say that you just misinterpreted things or added implications that really weren't there - don't you agree?

PS - poking at the bear here usually end up getting you stung by wasps. If someone asks a reasonable question, quoting you in the process, saying that you won't respond is pretty much asking for people not to respect your judgment. That was why I jokingly said "on guard", because people here are brutally honest "good, bad or ugly"....

yes, sure. lets stop the pointless conflict here. I do admit i prob misunderstood some stuff I will try to get use to his brutality/honesty, i am the same kind of person afterall . cheers [/quote]
Thank you! On with funding your deck.

[billdragon]

@billdragon i had a few questions i hope you can answer for me.

1) what is the box made of? (kind of card stock, weight, etc.)
2) your update from today 3/3 says that there is a fee for each deck upgrade? so if we don't pay the fee will we get a standard deck or would our order be canceled?

i've backed a lot of playing card campaigns and i've never seen deck upgrades handled this way. it is kind of confusing and needs to be clarified

I am in process of reforming that aspect. its clear to me now that i didn't explain that part properly.

lol, of course it dont work the way you think man, i am not a ks stuff, i dont have the ability to randomly cancel pledge like that.
I treate every backer of mine seriously.

you havn't seen something like this before, is because i currently holds the ability to print this on the best quality stock i could.
ok, everyone starts off with EPCC stardust and classic finish ( Diamond and Ancient)
then for the upgrade, the lower tiers need a fee to upgrade their deck to the better stock while the higher grade don't. I made it clear that its optional. and if we hit more on the goal, i can be able to afford to upgrade everyone for free.

cm White gold metalic paper is Italian imported, industrial printed, manual labour for the final process. 14pt, realy gold texture and have a light changing factor. super smooth on the top and triple layer coated

[RandyButterfield]

@ admin mike
I believe the person that called is randy butterfield. he took my previous campaign's deck title and used it on his own deck. so I wrote a comment on his wall listing exactly what he did. Its unfornate that in times like this, he still chooses to hide himself.
Sure, I will private message you. I am new to the forum, and seeing you posting stuff directly on my wall, i was assuming there isn't such function

Hello Bill,

I did not call Mike, I wrote Mike a PM to warn him about you. I took the high road during the Grinders campaign, because I believe in KARMA. When I saw you were about to relaunch your Sirens campaign, I decided to stay quiet and see if you had changed. After your aggressive replies to Mike and others last night I felt it was my duty to give Mike the heads-up!

Below is the exact PM I sent to Mike last night:


"Hey Mike,

I wanted to give you a heads-up on the type of character this billdragon guy is (creator of the Siren Deck).

Right in the middle of the Grinders' relaunch campaign, I received an extremely nasty KS PM from someone claiming how awful I was for stealing someone else's banner name. I had NO idea what she was talking about! I looked through her Backed Projects list and came across this KS Update that had occurred earlier that day (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/15 ... ts/1409714" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

I had never even seen his original Sirens campaign, so I was floored by the slander and verbal attack! All over giving my Limited Deck a campaign code name of "White Gold"?!!! Ridiculous!!

The next day Jianhao Cai pledged for the Grinders campaign, left an incredibly slanderous KS Comment and quickly cancelled his pledge.

Here's the link (his comment is towards the bottom):

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ra ... s/comments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was pissed!!! It took every part of me to not track him down and physically go after this guy! I couldn't believe the B.S. he was making up!

I took the high road and e-mailed the lady who originally sent me the nasty KS PM. I explained everything to her, and she acted as a middle man between Bill / Jianhao and I. I diffused the situation, even though I wanted to call him out on his crap.

When I saw that his new campaign was launching, I thought I would stay quiet and watch from the sidelines. Tonight I saw his knee jerk overreaction to your posts in the UC Siren thread. This guy is insane!

Thanks, Randy"

[Mike Ratledge]

...
you havn't seen something like this before, is because i currently holds the ability to print this on the best quality stock i could.
ok, everyone starts off with EPCC stardust and classic finish ( Diamond and Ancient)
then for the upgrade, the lower tiers need a fee to upgrade their deck to the better stock while the higher grade don't. I made it clear that its optional. and if we hit more on the goal, i can be able to afford to upgrade everyone for free.

cm White gold metalic paper is Italian imported, industrial printed, manual labour for the final process. 14pt, realy gold texture and have a light changing factor. super smooth on the top and triple layer coated

Fabrogini (Cartier), maybe? That would be cool! Teliad Alfrin is likely to be printed on their paper, which has been around since the 14th century.